All  new contract,s and sim only one  contract,s now include all 08 calls in the inclusive minutes.

( Apart from the Full Monty Tariff or You Fix 12 month plans.)

"Your inclusive minutes and texts are from the UK to UK mobile networks, voicemail, 08 services and numbers beginning 01, 02 and 03 (excluding Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man)."

(Normal Contract)http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO281/en_GB/36020357_PAYM2012_24month.pdf


(Sim Only)http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO285/en_GB/36020359_PAYM2012_12month_SIMO.pdf

Full T&C = http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/

There are five types of 08 numbers:

0800 / 0808 (and 0500)
0845
0870
0842 / 0843 / 0844
0871 / 0872 / 0873

Are you saying that all of these are covered?

That link does (for sim-only anyhow that I tried) imply you get all 08 numbers but looking on T-Mobile's website here, you see the same tariff as mentioned on the pdf from the link above except when you click on 'see call plan costs' near bottom-right, it mentions that calls to 01, 02, 03 are included and specifically states calls to 05, 08 are 40ppm!

bbb_uk wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

That link does (for sim-only anyhow that I tried) imply you get all 08 numbers but looking on T-Mobile's website here, you see the same tariff as mentioned on the pdf from the link above except when you click on 'see call plan costs' near bottom-right, it mentions that calls to 01, 02, 03 are included and specifically states calls to 05, 08 are 40ppm!

Your showing an £8  discounted offer  you have found
SIM only pay monthly 10 (12 months) 300 minutes / month 5000 texts / month 500 minutes to T-Mobile numbers / month .

Perhaps because its a discounted  sim only deal it does not   include 08 calls. You would clearly  need to check before buying it.




http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO285/en_GB/36020359_PAYM2012_12month_SIMO.pdf

catj wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

There are five types of 08 numbers: 0800 / 0808 (and 0500) 0845 0870 0842 / 0843 / 0844 0871 / 0872 / 0873 Are you saying that all of these are covered?

I am fully aware of the extent of the 08 numbering range thank you. ;)

Yes all 08 numbers  apparently are. See this thread in the Fone Forum. http://www.foneforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2201.0.html

It does say in the small print about 05 numbers  . " Please go to the “help & Support” section of our website, t-mobile.co.uk, for details around “non-standard” service charging. This includes charges for numbers starting with 05, 070, 09 and 118. Calls to these
numbers are subject to a 1 minute minimum call charge unless otherwise stated. Remember that calls to these numbers are not included in your monthly allowance."

I have also found this in there T&C about 30 day only plans.

SIM only 30 day plans

To join our SIM only 30 day plan you'll have to pass our standard credit check. All services are for use in the UK only.

Your monthly payment is for your three allowances. First, you get an allowance of minutes to check voicemail, (including call return), to call the customers of UK mobile networks, to call numbers starting with 01, 02 & 03 (excluding Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man), and to call numbers starting with 08 at any time. Second, you get an allowance of minutes to call other customers of the T-Mobile brand. And third, you get an allowance of texts to text the customers of UK mobile networks and numbers starting with 01, 02 & 03 (excluding Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man),



http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/sim-only/

bigjohn wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:51pm:

Your showing an £8  discounted offer  you have found SIM only pay monthly 10 (12 months) 300 minutes / month 5000 texts / month 500 minutes to T-Mobile numbers / month . Perhaps because its a discounted  sim only deal it does not   include 08 calls. You would clearly  need to check before buying it.

I cant see any plan on their website with regards to sim-only pay monthly sims here that state they include 08 calls or for the same price as mentioned in the pdf.

There latest terms and conditions clearly show that 08 calls are included in inclusive minutes, in all there plans with mobile or solely sim only,whatever duratation . Apart from the Full Monty plan or the You Fix 12 month plans.

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/

bigjohn wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58pm:

There latest terms and conditions clearly show that 08 calls are included in inclusive minutes, in all there plans with mobile or solely sim only,whatever duratation . Apart from the Full Monty plan or the You Fix 12 month plans. http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/

I know but why the inconsistency with what the t&c say compared to what their tariff details say on the web?

If Ofcom's proposals go ahead which will inevitably mean prices to 084 will rise, t-mobile may decide to remove the 08x numbers from their tariffs

I have know idea why the inconsistency in T-Mob  presenting info.. What i do know they are included as outlined in posts.

If they were to remove them from existing customers  inclusive minutes in the future they would have excellent  grounds to cancel there contracts.

bigjohn wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

I have know idea why the inconsistency in T-Mob  presenting info.. What i do know they are included as outlined in posts. If they were to remove them from existing customers  inclusive minutes in the future they would have excellent  grounds to cancel there contracts.

It is expected that the Unbundled Tariff is at least two years away, so no doubt T-Mobile will have adjusted its offerings by the time the plans for it are finalised.

I hope that the Service Charges will not be allowed to be included in bundles and packages; only the Access Charge should be (if at all).

bbb_uk wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

If Ofcom's proposals go ahead which will inevitably mean prices to 084 will rise, t-mobile may decide to remove the 08x numbers from their tariffs

When discussing Ofcom's proposals, we have to recognise that they will undo the present combination of two elements of charge into one.

I will address this at some length, to perhaps make good on having withdrawn from a conversation about the consultation on the Ofcom proposals because that consultation had concluded.

The Service Charge element

Ofcom's proposed solution would prevent T-Mobile from causing all package subscribers to pay the Service Charge (part of the cost of calling every 084 / 087 / 09 number) by having it bundled within the terms of an inclusive package. The same applies to BT and some other landline providers in respect of calls to 0845 numbers. They will not have the option of retaining the present perverse and unacceptable position; they will all have to remove the Service Charge element from their packages.

Because the Service Charge represents a payment from the caller to the called party, with the call originating telco acting simply as an agent, the fair telecoms campaign believes this should remain a matter between those two parties. Other subscribers to packages should not be involved - as they inevitably are when a package price covers the payment of Service Charges as part of what is included in the deal.


The present T-Mobile arrangement adds to the general consumer confusion about 084/087 numbers. It enables those who wish to exploit this confusion to perhaps make statements such as:

Quote:

calls to 084 and 087 numbers are sometimes covered by inclusive packages, offered by providers such as BT.

Of course this is misleading nonsense, intended to create a totally false impression. If however a statement such as this were to be used, it would perhaps not be possible to prove that it was factually inaccurate. It is quite hard enough to counter the many published claims that are plainly false.


There could be a further possible problem, caused by the fact that users of 0871/2/3 numbers are providers of "Premium Rate Services". In future they will have to declare their Service Charge, accompanied by a reference to the telco's Access Charge.

At present they are required to state only the lowest aggregate pence per minute rate for calling them, with the qualification that this is only an example. If this principle is retained, for the time being, then they could perhaps use T-Mobile packages as their example. They currently use the BT rates, excluding the call setup fee.

Perhaps we could see:

Quote:

Call us on 0871 xxx xxxx - this call may be inclusive in your package at no charge, although some providers may charge you considerably more

As I see them applied, this would be perfectly acceptable under the terms of the current PhonepayPlus Code.


(I address the Access Charge element in a separate posting.) …

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:45am:

(I address the Access Charge element in a separate posting.) …

The Access Charge element

One of the issues being considered under the Ofcom consultation which has just closed is the question of whether telcos be permitted to include their Access Charges (the other distinct element of the cost of calling a 084 / 087 / 09 number) in packages.

Because the Access Charge is only part of the relationship between the call originating telco and its customers, it is not covered by the objection raised above to the inclusion of Service Charges in packages or bundles. It is true that the Access Charge only applies in a situation where there is also a Service Charge, however the idea that the Access Charge reflects the basic cost of originating a call (as with a call to a geographic number) is a strong one. The reality is sadly not quite that simple (for a number of reasons) but, in general terms, it is a fair way of understanding the Access Charge and it is therefore desirable that the way in which the Unbundled Tariff is implemented by individual telcos supports this understanding.


Whilst the fair telecoms campaign does not see it as essential to tie the Access Charge to the rate for geographic calls (so that, as with 03, it would have to be included in a package whenever geographic calls were included) we see no good reason why telcos should not be free to offer "unlimited" or bundled packages which include the Access Charge.

We believe that it may be worth reviewing the position once we see what actually happens with Access Charges. There is no clear evidence to show exactly what telcos will do. Indeed, they are probably waiting to see what each other does, and will continue to react to moves by one another until the situation settles down!



The proposed "Unbundled Tariff" would come into effect in around in two years time. If we are looking ahead, there will then be another issue that will then have come into focus with regard to inclusive packages. This relates to the developing situation with the cost of calling mobiles from landlines.

By then, the progressive annual reduction in the termination rates for these calls will have caused them to be very close to those for landline to landline calls. This will open up the realistic possibility of "unlimited" landline packages including calls to mobiles.



Clearly the price of an "unlimited" inclusive package has to reflect the likely volume of calls made. The fewer potential calls are covered (whatever their cost to the provider), the cheaper the package may be. We see this today with "unlimited" packages that are limited in respect of the times when they may be used.

I see the potential for a wider variety of "unlimited" packages to be offered, limited not only by time of day / week but also by the types of calls that are covered, i.e. landlines, mobiles and access to numbers with a Service Charge. The most comprehensive "standard" packages would include all calls at all times. As they would include far more calls than the present offerings, they would be obviously be more expensive, however I see the possibility of them being restricted, as at present, perhaps back to where we are now.

For example, there are currently reduced price offerings for those who do not use their landlines before 7 in the evening on weekdays. In future, there could therefore be lower price offerings for those who never call mobiles, or those who never call numbers where they also pay a Service Charge. (If the Access Charge were tied to the rate for geographic calls, the latter option could not apply.)


The idea that it would be only the Access Charge element of the cost of a call to a 084/087/09 number that would be inclusive is the most difficult to understand from where we are now. The concept of the Service Charge as an additional payment collected by the call originating telco, but paid on to the person called, is not clearly understood at present.

It is hidden within a bundled charge and so the two components cannot be readily evaluated. Furthermore, many people seem to be more concerned about the relationship between the person called and their telephone service provider than their "net" financial relationship with the caller.


(I summarise my remarks and add some general comments in a separate posting.) …

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:46am:

(I summarise my remarks and add some general comments in a separate posting.) …

What T-Mobile is doing is not only unfair in itself, it also further impedes the difficult process of getting the status quo to be understood

We see this understanding as being most important, in particular so that implementation of the "Unbundled Tariff" can be recognised for what it is - nothing more than opening up what is happening at present.

There will inevitably be changes to aggregate call costs resulting from the imperative need to make the new full regime as clear and easy to understand as is possible. I see no evidence to show that these will have to be increases. The fact that both telcos and their customers are short of money, and are likely to remain so for a few years, will undoubtedly have an effect as adjustments take place, but this could apply in either direction. If telcos start to feel the pinch, as they probably will, there is no guarantee that they will risk their position by imposing higher charges on hard-pressed customers. Rounding up and taking every opportunity to impose price increases is natural in a generally inflationary environment, however it may be a little soon to make confident predictions about the state of the economy in two years time!


The business of making one payment which goes to two organisations in respect of two distinct services is inherently complex anyway. If the invalid uses of 084/087 numbers are flushed out by transparency (combined with the forthcoming provisions of the Consumer Rights Directive) we are left with those who choose to provide a chargeable service by telephone and are prepared to state their charge.

If they find this to be an effective way of doing business and the telcos are happy to go along with this, whilst also declaring their charges, then it is difficult to object in a free economy. The present environment makes it difficult for them to behave properly and far too easy to behave improperly, often because they have failed to notice how much has changed over the last 10 years.


The way in which T-Mobile has sought to simplify the situation may be seen by some to be desirable. It has set the same rate for calls to geographic numbers as for the bundled (Access plus Service) Charge for all 084 / 087 numbers - 40p per minute after the inclusive allowance has been used up. Do we cheer the absence of a premium?

Attempting to remove the "line rental" element and the fixed value of the inclusive texts and T-mobile minutes from the plans suggests a rate for inclusive calls of around 2p per minute. (When comparing the higher priced options, 300 minutes are added for £5, with other features unchanged.)

It may be reasonable to offer some discount to heavy users who are able to enter into a long term commitment to high call volumes. 95% does however seem to be a little over-generous!

The general position taken by T-Mobile is incomprehensible. I see an Access Charge of 38p per minute for non-inclusive calls to 0845 numbers, whereas for inclusive calls to some 0871 numbers it is -8p per minute. (The present equivalent Service Charges are roughly 2p per minute and 10p per minute respectively.)

Some respondents to the Ofcom consultations have called for the greater simplicity offered by having only maximum prices declared. I fear that with T-Mobile we are looking at what happens when the principle of simplicity is taken too far - so that it fails to reflect the reality of the underlying situation. T-Mobile has set a maximum of 40p per minute for what should be the most expensive calls and (perhaps for the sake of simplicity) other charges have been set at the same level.


Those who see the future regulated situation, under Ofcom's proposals, as more complicated may be happy with the over-simplified position adopted by T-Mobile. Alternatively, they are thinking back to the past,  when BT had an overwhelming share of the market, so regulation could apply to it alone.

The current situation is still based on the assumption that BT (now only partly regulated) sets prices that are fair and that these must be followed by all others. In both cases, this is a false assumption. BT's share of the non-business calls market is now below 25%. It is still the largest individual provider, although it does not operate at all in the mobile calls market, which is around 50% of the total. The key point is that BT is deemed to no longer holds the degree of "Significant Market Presence" which is required for Ofcom to be able to subject it to special regulation.

Ofcom therefore has to remove the present regulatory structure. We are pleased that it is taking the opportunity to attempt to introduce something that is much fairer, in that it closely reflects the reality of the current situation, in the simplest way possible. It appears to be sustainable, but we cannot say for certain what may develop over the longer term.

---

Those who wish to return to the past century will have to persuade the government (probably that of 2015-20) to re-nationalise the telecoms industry. I see another industry where the case for it being taken into public ownership is much stronger. That would however have to be on a multi-national basis, where we have no democratic institutions.

bigjohn wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

If they were to remove them from existing customers  inclusive minutes in the future they would have excellent  grounds to cancel there contracts.

This is potentially quite a disturbing point as those currently entering into two year deals may be caught.

The Unbundled Tariff would compel T-Mobile to remove the Service Charge from the inclusive deals. This would undoubtedly cause its customers "material detriment". T-Mobile therefore has a basis for arguing that it cannot be subjected to the regulations which will implement the Unbundled Tariff. Others may get on a bandwagon alleging damage that the Unbundled Tariff will cause to consumers.

This could be an interesting battle!

It may be particularly interesting to see how many groups claiming to represent the interests of consumers will be misled into supporting such a position, if this is the position that EE takes.

My brother has just taken out a contract with orange for the new i phone. His contract states all 08 numbers are included in his package. I said this could not be correct.

This is his response to me....

Just been on to T mobile and they confirmed that all outgoing calls to mobiles,08, 01,02. 03 numbers will in effect be part of the 600 minutes allowance..

I find that amazing.

Hi I am contacting you for your opinion in regard to a 0800 listings. Some time ago I set up a site but because of the set up and running costs I had to abort that idea. It maybe now  that the time is right especially with 0800 numbers soon the be included in mobile bundles.

I would appreciate your feedback in this regard

Bazzerfewi (Baz)

bazzerfewi wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 5:57pm:

Hi I am contacting you for your opinion in regard to a 0800 listings. Some time ago I set up a site but because of the set up and running costs I had to abort that idea. It maybe now  that the time is right especially with 0800 numbers soon the be included in mobile bundles. I would appreciate your feedback in this regard Bazzerfewi (Baz)

Baz I have sent you a PM however I am not too sure why you have piggy backed my post about TMobile  which has nothing to do with 0800 numbers:-/

Hi Sherbert. Its not a recent thing its been like that for a long while. Except for the Full Monty Tariff. Scroll back and see my post of  29/6/2012 . Can't post a link from my tablet. :)

sherbert wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 4:52pm:

My brother has just taken out a contract with orange for the new i phone. His contract states all 08 numbers are included in his package. I said this could not be correct. This is his response to me.... Just been on to T mobile and they confirmed that all outgoing calls to mobiles,08, 01,02. 03 numbers will in effect be part of the 600 minutes allowance.. I find that amazing.

I wonder what that "in effect" actually means.

Heinz wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 9:37am:

sherbert wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 4:52pm: My brother has just taken out a contract with orange for the new i phone. His contract states all 08 numbers are included in his package. I said this could not be correct. This is his response to me... Just been on to T mobile and they confirmed that all outgoing calls to mobiles,08, 01,02. 03 numbers will in effect be part of the 600 minutes allowance.. I find that amazing. I wonder what that "in effect" actually means.

According to T Mobile it means...

Minutes spent on those numbers come out of your 600 minute allowance  :-?

In addition to the Full  Monty and You Fix Tariffs Sim Only Deals are no longer included only other 18/24 contracts with mobiles.

They have now worded it

"Your monthly payment is for checking voicemail (including call return), your minutes and texts to call the customers of UK mobile networks and numbers starting with 01, 02 & 03 (excluding Jersey Guernsey and the Isle of Man) and your minutes to call numbers starting with 08 at any time. Unless we tell you otherwise, your monthly payment will also include inclusive internet on your phone."

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/

Where as before see my op they said.

"Your inclusive minutes and texts are from the UK to UK mobile networks, voicemail, 08 services and numbers beginning 01, 02 and 03 (excluding Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man)."

Is this the only provider that includes all 08 numbers in their inclusive packages? If so, I wonder why.

On this plan, 600 minutes of calls made to an 0871 number with the highest level of "enhanced termination fee" or Service Charge would cause T-Mobile to pay an "enhanced termination fee" or Service Charge to the terminating network that is nearly double the amount they charge the caller for the line rental per month.

sherbert wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Is this the only provider that includes all 08 numbers in their inclusive packages? If so, I wonder why.

.    Its  the only one to include all 08 numbers  in some of their inclusive packages.

I have just had this conversation with T-Mobile on their "Chat" service.   They say that 08 numbers are NOT included and are charged at 40ppm!!! ;_-


You are about to be connected to a new connection sales advisor for T-Mobile UK. Please note they do not have access to existing customer details and cannot process upgrades or queries related to an existing T-Mobile account. If you have a query of this nature please contact customer services on 0845 412 5000 or 150 from a T-Mobile handset.

You are now connected with Hazel.

Hazel: Hi there, my name is Hazel. I am part of the dedicated T-Mobile Online Sales Team. How can I help you with your new order?

Mike: Does one of your free Sim card offers include calls to 08 numbers?

Hazel: Hi Mike.

Hazel: I am sorry it is not included, It will cost you 40p per minutes.

Mike: Is that charge applied on all your sim cards?

Hazel: Yes it is included for all sim deals.

Mike: Why so expensive? Why not say 4p per min?

Hazel: I understand that but it is included from start.

Mike: Sorry, what is included?

Hazel: The charges.

Mike: You don't mean they are included, you mean they are excluded and must be paid for at 40PPM. I presume all 01/02 numbers are included -- up to what limit?

Hazel: Thank you for chatting with us.

Sorry chaps, T-Mobile do not include 08 numbers.   :(

Seems they didn't want to continue the conversation with me.   :(

Mike. You amaze me. Do you really think i would have said they were if they were not. :o

I have already pointed out recently that they are no longer included in sim card only deals ,and no one has ever suggested they were ever included on free sim  deals. So the advisor is correct.

They are  included in  normal contracts now apart from the full monty and u fix and sim only.;)

I had a 600 minute contract myself with them up to recently and all 08 numbers were included.

The SIM Only Price Plan Brochure - under the heading "Current Plans" - says that 08 numbers are included.

Dave wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 3:19pm:

The SIM Only Price Plan Brochure - under the heading "Current Plans" - says that 08 numbers are included.

The plot thickens Dave. ;)

Go to T-Mobile brought to you by EE

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/pay-monthly/ and  click on sim only then click on the T&C http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/

and it states "Calls to numbers starting with 08, 070, 09 and 118 are not included in your inclusive allowance of minutes" on sim only plans.

Which is what my recent comments  were based on.I recall however that when i made the original post it did say they were included.

bigjohn wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 3:52pm:

The plot thickens Dave. ;) Go to T-Mobile brought to you by EE http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/pay-monthly/ and  click on sim only then click on the T&C http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/pay-monthly/ and it states "Calls to numbers starting with 08, 070, 09 and 118 are not included in your inclusive allowance of minutes" on sim only plans. Which is what my recent comments  were based on.I recall however that when i made the original post it did say they were included.

Well what can I say? The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. ::)

T-Mobile have withdrawn 08 calls from inclusive minutes on sim only deals,and updated T&C.

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/sim-only/