Have today phoned the doctors surgery because PCT's are now ending and they need more funding, they have now changed to an 0844 number.  The Park Surgery 116 Kings Road Herne Bay CT6 5RE was 01227 742200 and also Herne & Broomfield Surgery 38 Broomfield Road Herne Bay CT6 7LY is changing was 01227 749662 the number which will be for both surgeries is 0844 387 9933..  There is at present no other alternative numbers that will get you to appointments. ..Due to illness we regularly have to phone the surgery over numerous different matters.  We know we are not alone in this as it will incurr extra costs for all.  Any help to find the geographical number would be of great help.We see some members have allready made some valid comments  Many thanks  :)

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~ Edited by Dave: Thread title amended

The 0844 number goes through to a menu with options for each surgery.

The 01227 749662 number goes through to options, voiced by the same female, although they aren't for each surgery (i.e. not the same as 0844).

I see that the posting on the practice's website says that:


Quote:

We are moving to a single phone number for both Surgeries.  The new number will be 08443 879933, from Friday 17th August at Broomfield Surgery and Friday 24th August at Park Surgery.  There may be some disruption to the phone lines on Thursday 16th and Thursday 23rd August.

Thank dave that number is working at the moment however it also will change to same 0844 number  shortly  :)

Dave wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2012 at 2:11pm:

I see that the posting on the practice's website says that: Quote: We are moving to a single phone number for both Surgeries.  The new number will be 08443 879933, from Friday 17th August at Broomfield Surgery and Friday 24th August at Park Surgery.  There may be some disruption to the phone lines on Thursday 16th and Thursday 23rd August.

Dave is that not in direct breach of the DoH guidelines published over a year ago?

That is in direct breach of the regulations.

GPs were banned from using 0844 numbers in April 2010 and given one year to stop using them.

catj wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2012 at 6:30pm:

That is in direct breach of the regulations. GPs were banned from using 0844 numbers in April 2010 and given one year to stop using them.

And it appears they have taken out a new contract.. is there anyone the OP can complain to?

The practice manager needs to made aware of your grievance. I guess the NHS Choices website will reveal the name of who you need to contact.

Point out that GPs must use a number that costs no more than an 01 number to call, whether from a landline or from a mobile.

Point out that 0844 numbers were banned in April 2010 and GPs were given until April 2011 to comply.

You'll most likely be met with the following arguments for their use of an 0844 number:


Quote:

It's a local rate call at somewhere betwen 2 and 6 pence per minute.

This is simply not true. "Local rate" was abolished by BT in 2006. For most callers, calls to 01 (and 02/03) numbers from landlines appear in their bundled minutes and are effectively "free".

Calls to 0844 numbers from landlines are almost always chargeable and so the caller is paying "more" to call their GP on an 0844 number than they would on an 01 number.

The Advertising Standards Authority have already taken action against many companies incorrectly claiming their 084 number is a "local rate" call. This is a "misleading pricing indication".


Quote:

If you're calling from a mobile you should expect to pay more.

Sure, yes; if you call an 01 number from a mobile it might cost more than calling an 01 number from a landline, but that is not the point. GPs are required to provide a number that costs no more to call from a mobile than an 01 number costs from a mobile. 0844 numbers fail that test.

Callers using their mobile phone on a contract have 01 (and 02/03) numbers within their bundled minutes and those calls are effectively "free". Calls to 0844 numbers from a mobile phone cost up to 41 pence per minute "more" than calling 01 numbers.

For callers using a pay-as-you-go phone, calls to 01 numbers typically cost from 5 to 25 pence per minute, but calls to 0844 numbers typically cost 25 to 41 pence per minute. This is patently "more". The other problem here is that the caller isn't charged as soon as they start talking, instead they are usually put in a queue for at least several minutes - all the while being charged and running their credit down.


Quote:

We offer a callback service.

That's not good enough. The caller has already spent a hefty sum in the queue before getting to speak to someone.


Quote:

We don't make any money out of this.

By it's very nature the 0844 number carries a service charge (or "premium") of several pence per minute. That money goes somewhere - usually to the supplier of the equipment the surgery now uses to receive calls from patients. Their phone line supplier rakes off several pence per minute from every call made to the surgery even if the surgery doesn't directly benefit.


Quote:

Patients have demanded this.

That all depends on what "this" is. They might have wanted a more efficent way to contact their GP, but were probably not aware that the call cost would increase by up to 41 pence per minute on the 0844 scheme their GP has chosen.

Patients were probably asked "do you want a queueing system on a local-call rate number?" By using an 0844 number the patients now have a queueing system on a premium (small "p") rate number.


Quote:

We did a survey in the first two weeks and most callers loved it.

At that time, almost none of them would have had sight of their phone bill detailing the cost of the relevant calls. A survey several months in would be much more revealing.


Quote:

We can't cancel the contract.

They don't have to. There's an 0344 number already reserved for their exclusive use. All 03 numbers are charged at the same rate as 01 and 02 numbers from landlines and from mobiles and are included in bundled "free" minutes on both landline and mobile packages.


You can refer them to many recent articles in major national newspapers that clearly state that 0844 numbers are banned.

You could refer them to the statement made by the Secretary of State in Parliament in March 2012 when he said:
"We have made it very clear that GPs should not be using 0844 numbers for that purpose and charging patients for them."
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2012-03-27a.1326.4&s=%28no+OR+not%29+AND+0844+AND+numbers#g1327.0

They could watch the Northern Ireland Assembly debate from May 2012 where these points were quite clearly made in detail by several people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/northern_ireland/newsid_9724000/9724397.stm

You could refer them to David Hickson's massive amount of background material and to the fine media interviews found here and here.


It's inexcusable that two years after the ban, GPs are still signing up to this scheme.

It's doubly inexcusable that the product is still offered for sale to GPs when it is not fit for purpose.


Write to your MP.

I found this as Park's answer to the question WHY

http://www.parksurgery.com/Documents/Why0844numbers%5B1%5D%5B1%5D.pdf

I hope it will work - the usual rubbish - havent they heard of Geo.Line Enhancement.

It wasn't even the Practice Manager that actioned this I found in another PDF it was the Assistant Manager - Too insignificant for the Lady Herself, or so she can blame someone else ?

I will be emailing to ask the Proper Questions and will update on here if they have the gits to reply - I think they will ignore same as they have DoH Variation and guidences.

If funds are being lowered - everyone will be in the same boat - Most others havent made their Patients Donate to their Surgery upkeep.

Thank you all for your efforts we do not feel that we are able to approach the surgery ourseives as we cannot afford to have problems, being patients of the surgery we do not want to have repercussions appreciate all the help   :)

Out of interest are other surgeries nearby using 0844 numbers?

Frankly you are welcome to voice your opinion, what they are most likely hoping for that is no one does..

It's against the guidelines, if you cannot speak to the surgery how about the PCT before it folds or the local PALS ?

The 0844 number quoted in the PDF is different to the one at the top of this thread (is it the right one?), presumably it has been written by their phone supplier and issued to multiple customers.


Quote:

Not only is the cost of the call you make to them roughly the same as if it had been to a local number,

They stop just short of saying "it's local rate", a claim that would easily result in successful action from the ASA, but merely claim "similar to". Well, if "4 pence per minute" is similar to "nothing at all per minute" then they do have a point. And, cleverly, they fail to mention calls from mobile telephones at all. For 0844 numbers, calls from mobiles often cost about six to ten times as much as calls from landlines.


Quote:

you should no longer hear the engaged tone when dialling in. This means that you should no longer have to go to the time, trouble and expense of phoning us repeatedly

Hearing the engaged tone costs nothing. Now that every call is answered and placed in a queue, you start paying immediately and continue to be charged while in the queue. If you hang up because the wait is too long, you will still pay for the time spent in the queue. This is not a pricing improvement vs. paying nothing for unsuccessful calls which previously led to an engaged tone.

speedy wrote on Aug 27^th, 2012 at 10:15pm:

I found this as Park's answer to the question WHY http://www.parksurgery.com/Documents/Why0844numbers%5B1%5D%5B1%5D.pdf I hope it will work - the usual rubbish - havent they heard of Geo.Line Enhancement. It wasn't even the Practice Manager that actioned this I found in another PDF it was the Assistant Manager - Too insignificant for the Lady Herself, or so she can blame someone else ? I will be emailing to ask the Proper Questions and will update on here if they have the gits to reply - I think they will ignore same as they have DoH Variation and guidences. If funds are being lowered - everyone will be in the same boat - Most others havent made their Patients Donate to their Surgery upkeep.

As far as I can tell, that is a different Surgery in another area altogether.

That one on it's main site, publishes both an 0844 and 01 contact number.

Park is the main surgery in Herne Bay it also has a branch surgery at Herne and Broomfield which is about 5 miles away and if it hasn't already is apparently changing to the same 0844 number.  When the system is fully operational there will be a selection process when you call in for one or the other surgery.
Today the original  01227 749662 number for Herne and Broomfield surgery now states Park and Broomfield Surgeries  does not ring just immediately answers so where they said that it would go to 0844 number on 17th August not sure whats happened there.  It looks from the website that they have amalgamated to 0844 but the old 01227 749662 is still operational. However the old number for Herne Bay main surgery which was 01227 742200 has a message which reverts you to the 0844 number.  So for now will continue to use the 01227 749662 number to get through.  Perhaps this is the main lead geographical number for both surgeries now?  Hope this makes sense.

http://www.parksurgery.com/contact.htm

Looks like a small amount of progress:


Quote:

Park Surgery Albion Way Horsham RH12 1BG Telephone 0844 815 1511 Fax 0844 815 1355 Contact the practice on 0844 815 15 11 (charged at local BT rates) or 01403 330266 (charged as per your call plan for local calls). Calls to both numbers will join the practices call queuing system.

There's still the false claim that 0844 numbers are "local rate" and no mention that calls from mobiles will cost up to 41 pence per minute.

However, they do dispel the myth that you cannot queue calls on 01 and 02 numbers.


Quote:

NB: Our phone system will hold you in a queue. At times of high demand the system has been set to exit you from the queue after 15 minutes. In this event please call later.

If you use your mobile phone to ring the 0844 number at busy times, you'll be charged up to £6.15 and then your call dumped without ever getting to speak to someone.

This is the correct post code of the Park Surgery, Herne Bay is CT6 5RE  not in Horsham.

http://www.parksurgery.net/

This also shows the new 2 Tier geo. line that has been added - charged at local rate - also the 0844 3879933 also charged at local rate ( according a certain Communication Co words recommendations )

Their NHS Choices Web site is still not showing the 0844 only their old geo. number. It says at the bottom:

Info Eastern Coastal July 2012  - So Eastern Coastal ( part of West Kent and Medway PCT Cluster ) is asleep on the job again.