O2 are charging for landline and mobile calls to the Channel Islands and the Isle Of Man from the 4/12/2013 up to now they have been included in inclusive minutes for some considerable time.

http://www.o2.co.uk/support/generalhelp/howdoi/ngnchange

Most other suppliers already charge for these type of calls and don't include them in inclusive minutes.

bigjohn wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 4:15am:

Most other suppliers already charge for these type of calls and don't include them in inclusive minutes.

And these destinations should not be included in the normal UK numbering scheme as they break all the rules.

kasg wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:59am:

bigjohn wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 4:15am: Most other suppliers already charge for these type of calls and don't include them in inclusive minutes. And these destinations should not be included in the normal UK numbering scheme as they break all the rules.

Rules?

I am aware (from a call made by my parents) that TalkTalk did not charge for a call to the Isle of Man (IOM) under their inclusive 01/02/03 call plan.

I am sure TalkTalk should of charged for a call to the IOM....

What Rules ?

As far as TT is concerned it says .

"3.3 Calls to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not automatically included in your Tariff Plan or in any promotion offered by TalkTalk."

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/legal/terms/talktalk-product-terms.html

bigjohn wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 6:24pm:

What Rules ? As far as TT is concerned it says . "3.3 Calls to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not automatically included in your Tariff Plan or in any promotion offered by TalkTalk." http://www.talktalk.co.uk/legal/terms/talktalk-product-terms.html

That's what I assumed.. but it was definitely a Zero charge

CJT-80 wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 6:30pm:

bigjohn wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 6:24pm: What Rules ? As far as TT is concerned it says . "3.3 Calls to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not automatically included in your Tariff Plan or in any promotion offered by TalkTalk." http://www.talktalk.co.uk/legal/terms/talktalk-product-terms.html That's what I assumed.. but it was definitely a Zero charge

The point being well made by kasg is that the IOM and Channel islands should not have 01 or 02 numbers because they are excluded from calls inclusive packages.   This is another anomaly which desperately needs to be corrected by Ofcom.   >:(

Where does it say in the Ofcom rules specifically that all 01/02 calls must be included in a suppliers inclusive minutes ?

I don't know and I don't profess to know nor do I, as a normal everyday user of telephone services, think I ought to have to learn complicated rules about what is or is not included in call packages.     The point is that there is an industry convention, if not a rule, that all 01, 02 and 03 numbers are included in call packages.    It should be as simple as that.    Until quite recently I was unaware that IOM and Channel Island numbers are excluded so if I were to return a call to such a number I would be unaware that they were charged at a different rate to all other 01 and 02 numbers. 

If the phone industry, and the regulator, cannot set and adhere to clear rules or conventions it lays itself open to accusations and allegations of misleading the public and profiteering.

loddon wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 10:17am:

The point being well made by kasg is that the IOM and Channel islands should not have 01 or 02 numbers because they are excluded from calls inclusive packages.   This is another anomaly which desperately needs to be corrected by Ofcom.   >:(

Thank you, exactly what I meant. There is also a whole host of numbers in the UK mobile range that are not charged as UK mobile numbers (and I'm not talking about 070 and 076 numbers). Logically the IOM and Channel Islands should have their own country code.

Sticking with the subject of the thread.Calls to Channel Islands from UK mainland have always been chargeable unless a particular supplier decided to make them inclusive. O2,s  did it in a  promotion and never stopped it until now.

I  can recall yonks ago. BT had Local Rate. National Rate,and Channel Island Rates.

Ofcom cant give them a country code because they are not classed as a seperate country.

Given the confusion should suppliers  be doing more to make it clear whats included and whats not clearly YES imho,and yes it should include all numbers/services  that are not included.

bigjohn wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 6:16pm:

Ofcom cant give them a country code because they are not classed as a separate country.

Well it wouldn't be up to Ofcom to give them a separate country code, since Ofcom is a UK regulator, not international. They could assign a totally separate number range (e.g. 04 and 06 have not been used at all) but that's probably overkill.


bigjohn wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 6:16pm:

Given the confusion should suppliers  be doing more to make it clear what's included and what's not clearly YES imho, and yes it should include all numbers/services  that are not included.

I agree that is the best that is likely to happen. I might have a look and see how prominent this information is on various suppliers' websites.

It appears that Virgin Mobile are the only mobile  supplier that now offers inclusive calls/text to the Channel Islands and I of M.

"Includes calls and texts to Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. Many phones can send texts up to three times as long as normal. They'll be delivered as separate messages, so you'll be charged for each. Call forwarding services (that's numbers beginning with 07744 and 07755) are not included. Currently excludes calls to Truphone, Mundio, HAY Systems, TG Support and Cable & Wireless"

http://www.virginmobile.com/vm/genericContent.do?contentId=payasyougo.tariff.howdoi.sm286

If they are not part of the United Kingdom they should not have a UK Dialling Code.. it should be international and very different from ours.

Alternatively the UK networks should establish the exact wholesale calling cost, and include them in UK 01/02/03 minutes.

The system is already complicated enough as it is.

As an example of this, I was trying to find out the cost of calling an 090 number on TalkTalk.  I eventually gave up and entered the competition online.

Something needs to be properly done with the Telecom's Industry so that it works FOR the Public not against them!

CJT-80 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:31pm:

If they are not part of the United Kingdom they should not have a UK Dialling Code.. it should be international and very different from ours.

Indeed they are not part of the UK, but they don't seem to be countries either, merely "crown dependencies" - I don't know whether there are any similar territories that are treated as countries for telephone code purposes. Even Jersey and Guernsey are totally separate entities, "Channel Islands" just being a convenient way of grouping them.

CJT-80 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:31pm:

As an example of this, I was trying to find out the cost of calling an 090 number on TalkTalk.  I eventually gave up and entered the competition online.

TalkTalk give good clear pricing information, certainly at the side of many others. It is published at talktalk.co.uk/pricing.

Select the package you are on and then expand "Rates to UK landlines" (OK, so it's a little illogical to regard a 09 number as a "UK landline", but stick with it). Find the Charge band of the number in question by looking at the number list and then navigate the list and find the price of the band in question.