Hello, I see that most people here like 03xx numbers.  Please can I perhaps make you think about this problem that I am now facing.   

Before 0330 number I could look at this webpage and find that a 0845 number could be changed to this or that 01/02 number.  Using 1899 as a service I would only have to pay around 6p connection charge; 0p per minute.  But they don't do 03 numbers.  I'm charged around 9p per minute!  Sure IF I had a package it would be included, but these packages are not cheap--BT charge around £9 (for a daytime all inclusive package, which would be what I would need... I've not looked up the exact amount, guys, but it's around that) per month.  But by using 1899 I was able to have a phone bill of only £2 or £3 per month; clearly better value.  Until now. 

0330 numbers have meant I had to pay a fortune to call the tax office!  Miele is another company that likes to keep you waiting 20 minutes too!  Not a problem in the 0p per minutes days; but now that would be around another £2+ (cf 6p)! 

All I ask is that we also list alternatives to 03 numbers too here--since they are a little like 0845 numbers; I mean those too are free if you have a BT package!

tara

This problem is recognised. Although telephone companies are required to charge for calls to 03 numbers on the same basis as calls to 01/02 numbers, the arrangements they have between them means that the call originator pays a little more of the call terminator's costs on 03 calls than on 01/02 calls.

Because "bucket shop" operators have to trim all of their costs to the bone, they cannot absorb this difference. Sadly, this means that they now choose not to offer calls to 03 numbers.

Although it has done little to publicise it, BT does now offer a "Home Phone Saver" deal, at £3 per month. This is effectively the Anytime Plan with some extras and could be worth considering - assuming that you do not have BT Broadband.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

Although it has done little to publicise it, BT does now offer a "Home Phone Saver" deal, at £3 per month. This is effectively the Anytime Plan with some extras and could be worth considering - assuming that you do not have BT Broadband.

Could be worth considering alongside non-BT Broadband for those without a contract mobile phone and the price promise until 2017 is interesting, given the rate that line rental is increasing.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49402/~/home-phone-saver

kasg wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 4th, 2014 at 1:36pm: Although it has done little to publicise it, BT does now offer a "Home Phone Saver" deal, at £3 per month. This is effectively the Anytime Plan with some extras and could be worth considering - assuming that you do not have BT Broadband. Could be worth considering alongside non-BT Broadband for those without a contract mobile phone and the price promise until 2017 is interesting, given the rate that line rental is increasing. http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49402/~/home-phone-saver

My understanding is you cant have Broadband with it whether its supplied by BT or another provider.

bigjohn wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 8:07pm:

My understanding is you cant have Broadband with it whether its supplied by BT or another provider.

It doesn't say that anywhere, only BT broadband.

kasg wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 8:16pm:

bigjohn wrote on Dec 4th, 2014 at 8:07pm: My understanding is you cant have Broadband with it whether its supplied by BT or another provider. It doesn't say that anywhere, only BT broadband.

Here it doesnt specify  BT Broadband it says people with broadband and tv packages etc.

http://www.bt.co.uk/pricing/notifs/18-06-2014/Cust_Opts_Res_boo/NotificationPeriodImpl1225655FrameworkImpl1225679.htm

I would be very surprised if they were to allow it. :)

bigjohn wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Here it doesnt specify  BT Broadband it says people with broadband and tv packages etc. http://www.bt.co.uk/pricing/notifs/18-06-2014/Cust_Opts_Res_boo/NotificationPeriodImpl1225655FrameworkImpl1225679.htm

It specifically says "Broadband and TV Bundles" - and, not or, so that is clearly open to interpretation.

There are indeed many odd and perverse conditions found in the almost undecipherable BT T's& C's, including some others which relate to the point under discussion and this product.

Unless we want to get into heavy discussion about what may or may not be enforceable under law, perhaps it is best to stick to what it clearly says at http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49402/~/home-phone-saver.

The point about this product is the fact that it is the ideal and obvious option for a very large number of BT customers, but it is almost being kept secret!

As as already been pointed out in this thread Tara   the termination rate(s) for 03 numbers are high enough, weirdly, for some owners of an 03 number to offer payments (in kind) to callers. So its easy to understand why Finarea the owners of 1899/18185.18866 won't let you call 03 for an unlimited time for 5p. You'd be printing money at Finarea's expense.

If you dont want to purchase a bundle  you can still  use www.telesave.co.uk to call at 1p/min weekends and evenings and 1.5p/min weekday daytimes (8am-6pm). You can call via 0800 0662266.

Only disadvantage is you need to top up £10 first. There is a 4p mininum charge. As your notice the site itself is a tad out of date.

Other then that if you have a spare  mobile you could get a payg sim from someone like www.delightmobile.co.uk and call 03 numbers at 3p a minute.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 9:03pm:

The point about this product is the fact that it is the ideal and obvious option for a very large number of BT customers, but it is almost being kept secret!

I originally mentioned it here http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1408846528

Allegro made a good point in that thread ,that if BT did allow you to use other suppliers broadband service,which makes no commercial sense imho. It might not be cost effective as some suppliers tend to charge more for standalone broadband.

Also you could not get your broadband from another supplier and your phone  from BT  where the broadband is unbundled  Eg Talk Talk , as such suppliers cannot move your telephone line rental  to another provider without also changing your broadband.

Hello guys.  Thanks for all your comments.  Unfortunately, as you might expect (since I'm writing here) I have BT Broadband (BT Infinity to be precise), otherwise BT Home Server would have been ideal (probably). 

Anyway, I'm sure there are good reasons for 03xx numbers, and for why operators like 1899 can't offer them.  But isn't this the point?  What I think we need to do is to start finding out (new) numbers (ie, 01/02) that can be used instead of 03 numbers...  The existing Saynoto0870.com website now has a heading 01/02/03.  Noooooooo!! It should remain 01/02 and then have a separate column (or something similar) for 03, since these are (really) like the old 0845 numbers.  And 0845 numbers were never included in the 01/02 column.  Just because some organisation says that 03 numbers are "like landlines" do we have to believe it?  They're not like landlines to me -- since I'm now being charged so much for them.

Separating the 03 numbers from 01/02 will be a start, but I do wonder if we don't need to complain, too, to these companies that are listing them -- that is, we need them to list alternative 01/02 numbers too.  Just as before with 0845/ 0870 numbers. Companies like Miele have now removed all their 01/02 numbers and I worry that now 03 numbers have been cleverly categorised as "the same as a landline number" we will be left we having to pay the extra charges for our telephone use.  That'll be a 200% increase in my monthly phone bill!   

Tara

Your choice to use an off-the-wall provider must be respected, however the tail cannot be allowed to wag the dog. It is Ofcom that has said that "03 numbers are like landlines", and that is why Finarea has stopped offering access to them - due to the arrangements that it, and others, have with the telcos that terminate these calls.

Any reasonable provider of telephone service would not dream of withholding access to 03 numbers. 1899 is clearly a specialist service which meets a lot of your needs and it would be quite right for SayNoTo0870.com to offer whatever support it can for those in your position. Once the misuse of 087 and 084 numbers has dropped further, as a result of "Clear Call Rates for Everyone", maybe the future for this website lies in sponsorship from Finarea, being renamed to SayNoTo03 and a campaigning focus on the termination rates for 03 calls!

Hello all. 
I'm confused by your analysis of what will happen, so let's be clear.  I'm sure you can't be saying that it's better to wait until everyone is only given an 03 number and then campaign against them... So what is best?  I think that the ideal solution would be to have both 03 and 01/02 numbers and people allowed to have a choice.  I can see the benefits to 03 numbers for some, but for me I only want 01/02 (or of course a freephone number)!

The history as I see it is this: At present we have lot of rather expensive 08xx numbers that 'saynoto0870' has been campaigning against. But nowadays these numbers are included in caller deals (BT for example)...  Of course you pay for these packages. 

Now, along come 03xx numbers that are, similarly, rather expensive to call.  But they too are fee if you have a package. Now doesn't that sounds exactly the same as why 'Saynoto0870.com' was created?  I only hope it hasn't become entrench to think its only goal is to remove 08[70] number(s)!   All I say is let's start listing alternatives to these 03 numbers too please. 

Tara 03 numbers are not any more expensive to call then 01/02 . They are treated the same as 01/02 numbers for charging purposes by all UK Landline and Mobile Networks,and are included in inclusive minutes. No plans exists to change this as far as i am aware.They are therefore a perfectly good alternative number,and i cant see any compelling  need to be specificially seeking alternatives to them.


"Ofcom introduced UK-wide 03 numbers as an alternative to chargeable 08 numbers, such as 0870.

These numbers allow organisations to have a single national point of contact without consumers having to pay extra to call them.

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 number and must count towards any inclusive minutes in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.

These rules apply to calls from any type of line including mobile, BT, other fixed line or payphone "

http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/03number

tara wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 9:19pm:

The history as I see it is this: At present we have lot of rather expensive 08xx numbers that 'saynoto0870' has been campaigning against. But nowadays these numbers are included in caller deals (BT for example)...  Of course you pay for these packages.

No, only 0845 and 0870 are ever included in packages, and even that is unlikely to last long. These are only a small proportion of the 08 numbers in use, although thankfully the use of 0844, etc. has declined recently due to changes in the law. And, as bigjohn says, 03 numbers are in no way "similarly, rather expensive to call" - your specific issue arose from Finarea no longer handling calls to these numbers.

tara wrote on Dec 5^th, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Hello guys.  Thanks for all your comments.  Unfortunately, as you might expect (since I'm writing here) I have BT Broadband (BT Infinity to be precise), otherwise BT Home Server would have been ideal (probably).  Anyway, I'm sure there are good reasons for 03xx numbers, and for why operators like 1899 can't offer them.  But isn't this the point?  What I think we need to do is to start finding out (new) numbers (ie, 01/02) that can be used instead of 03 numbers...  The existing Saynoto0870.com website now has a heading 01/02/03.  Noooooooo!! It should remain 01/02 and then have a separate column (or something similar) for 03, since these are (really) like the old 0845 numbers.  And 0845 numbers were never included in the 01/02 column.  Just because some organisation says that 03 numbers are "like landlines" do we have to believe it?  They're not like landlines to me -- since I'm now being charged so much for them. Separating the 03 numbers from 01/02 will be a start, but I do wonder if we don't need to complain, too, to these companies that are listing them -- that is, we need them to list alternative 01/02 numbers too.  Just as before with 0845/ 0870 numbers. Companies like Miele have now removed all their 01/02 numbers and I worry that now 03 numbers have been cleverly categorised as "the same as a landline number" we will be left we having to pay the extra charges for our telephone use.  That'll be a 200% increase in my monthly phone bill!

03 are never like 0845 - that is nonsense!

03 are great and should be encouraged.

if you can't dial them, then get a mobile PAYG or contract and then you can pay the same as 01 or 02 numbers - simples!

Tara will be pleased to know that 18185 now allow access to 03 numbers again. :)

bigjohn wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 4:18am:

Tara will be pleased to know that 18185 now allow access to 03 numbers again. :)

As do 1899 and 18866.


.

mmm, I can understand you guys don't likes 08xx numbers etc etc etc.  But let's not get technical about this.  All I'm talking about is the consequence to some one (me, if you like) of companies moving to 0330 numbers.   Specifically -- the move to 0330 only numbers means that some people will suffer (as far as I can see).   

Is the issue only with me since I use the 1899 service?  It's hard to know what a lot of other recommended [see: http://callchecker.moneysavingexpert.com/ukcallchecker/landline/daytime/bt/easy ]  do charge, since 03 numbers are not specifically mentioned.   If other providers include 0330 numbers in an 0p per minutes package then *please* let me know who!  However, I suspect that 0330 number are not included with any of these cheaper providers because they are not routed the same as 01/02 numbers. 

Anyway, perhaps I should have said for technical correctness that 03 numbers are not 01/02 numbers; rather than saying they were a bit like 08xx number? 

tara wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:48pm:

mmm, I can understand you guys don't likes 08xx numbers etc etc etc.  But let's not get technical about this.  All I'm talking about is the consequence to some one (me, if you like) of companies moving to 0330 numbers.   Specifically -- the move to 0330 only numbers means that some people will suffer (as far as I can see).    Is the issue only with me since I use the 1899 service?  It's hard to know what a lot of other recommended [see: http://callchecker.moneysavingexpert.com/ukcallchecker/landline/daytime/bt/easy ]  do charge, since 03 numbers are not specifically mentioned.   If other providers include 0330 numbers in an 0p per minutes package then *please* let me know who!  However, I suspect that 0330 number are not included with any of these cheaper providers because they are not routed the same as 01/02 numbers.  Anyway, perhaps I should have said for technical correctness that 03 numbers are not 01/02 numbers; rather than saying they were a bit like 08xx number?

How do they suffer ?

03 numbers are not any more expensive to call then 01/02 . They are treated the same as 01/02 numbers for charging purposes by all UK Landline and Mobile Networks,and are included in inclusive minutes. No plans exists to change this

Your problem arose due to your choice of cheap call supplier  because 1899 decided that they would not include access to 03 anymore.Which they were perfectly entitled to do.They dont claim to offer a service to all UK telephone numbering ranges and never have done .

Only 3 suppliers  offer unlimited  landline  calls for 5p per call. 1899,18185,and 18866. All owned by the same company.

The good news for you is they have all now included them again so you can call 03 numbers via 1899 etc  for just 5p a call. :)

Make Hay while the sunshines. BT no longer have to allow indirect access to such numbers. They could block them in the future. Other suppliers eg Talk Talk have already blocked them. :o

Finally some good news everybody with regard to Finarea's call brands (1899, 18185, 18866 and various voip offerings) as in the middle of this week I found they were once again carrying calls to 03 numbers at "0p per minute" or 5p connection for the call (however long).

This has not come about by accident as in mid November I made several attempts to contact Ofcom's Director of Content Consumer and External Affairs, Claudio Pollack about this issue.  I had met Claudio long ago at a meeting at Ofcom in 2004 (where he was unstintingly friendly and charming unlike one or two other Ofcom staff members present) and he has remained in post as their head Consumer Affairs section ever since.  I was also able to track down Claudio's current direct phone line through some correspondence he had sent out from Ofcom that is posted on the web.

I never actually got a call back from Claudio himself but finally heard by phone from Marham Sivak at Ofcom in mid November.  Markham is their Principal Competition Policy Officer.  See https://uk.linkedin.com/pub/markham-sivak/0/4a2/88a

Markham told me that Ofcom were already fully aware of this issue and that they did regard the refusal of Finarea's UK call brands using Indirect Access to carry calls to UK 03 numbers as being a potential breach of Ofcom GC17 and were looking in to what could be done to persuade Finarea to comply with the General Condition.  Although Finarea are a Swiss company they have various UK subsidiaries and bank accounts that actually handle the finances of their UK sub-brands but they are also reliant on the Indirect Access facility of the fixed line telephone network (controlled by none other than BT Wholesale) to deliver the service.  Therefore in Mr Markham's opinion unlike the situation with Orange Spain charging vastly more to call UK 03 numbers than 01/02 numbers this matter was covered by Ofcom GC17.

Well it has taken a little time but now it seems that Finarea have been made to see the error of their ways and faced with the alternatives of either shutting down their UK Indirect Access call service (or face repeat fines if they didn't comply with GC17) they have chosen to comply and restore access to 03 numbers at the same rate as 01 and 02.  Ofcom were were also aware of the extensive previous promotion of the Finarea call brands by Moneysavingexpert.com and hence the fact that this breach of GC17 could not be regarded as being trivial.

It may of course be that more work behind the scenes has gone on here and that whatever parties were over charging Finarea for these 03 calls (clearly something had change as Finarea were connecting calls quite happily to 03 numbers for the previous 8 or more years since just after they had been created) compared to 01/02 numbers have also now been forced to lower their prices to sensible levels enabling Finarea to afford to restore access to the 03 number range.

I have to confess that I did intend to email Markham Sivak and also copy in several key journalists if Ofcom got nowhere with this issue but Ofcom have actually acted so comparatively rapidly here that they have beaten me too it in this instance.

However I had tracked down quite a bit more info on who is currently running Finarea in the event we had needed to correspond with them directly to point out the lack of wisdom of their block on calling 03 numbers.  The most useful information I came across was via the website at www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/finarea_sa_CH-514.3.024.457-9.htm (where more of the info is free than certain rival websites such as kompany.com) and this currently reveals the following:-


Quote:

Director(s):- Alexander Engel is both a Director (and probably also Chairman) of the company having been in post since 3rd January 2007. Current Management Board:- Alf Naus , director and Joint signatory since (27.09.2012) Anita Sindico, director and joint signatory since (16.01.2012) Contact Details:- Viale Carlo Cattaneo 1 6900 Lugano Phone: 091 922 54 31 Fax: 091 922 54 33

Alf Naus is also a director of KeyCollect SA, another Swiss company.  Alexander Engel and Anita Sindico also appear to have an involvement in the business activities of Keycollect SA.

But I cannot track any more information on these  three people.  They do not seem to be on either Linked In or Facebook.   Just quietly profitable Swiss Telecoms Gnomes it would appear............. ;)

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

Finally some good news everybody with regard to Finarea's call brands (1899, 18185, 18866 and various voip offerings) as in the middle of this week I found they were once again carrying calls to 03 numbers at "0p per minute" or 5p connection for the call (however long).

These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  ;)

.

derrick wrote on Jan 31^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  ;)

Thanks for pointing that out Derrick. ;)

How time must have flown over xmas and new year as it seems like only five minutes since I tried using 18185 to call an 03 and was told it was not a standard rate number and so could not be carried by them. :'(

Nonetheless the change by Finarea was not made until one month after my conversation with Mr Markham Sivak at Ofcom and I do not believe that Finarea would have changed policy without receiving polite intimations from Ofcom and others that they might face action for a breach of GC17 if they did not include 03 numbers in their same deal as calls to numbers commencing 01 and 02.  Mr Sivak was very definite that the service supplied by Finarea by Indirect Access most definitely came within Ofcom's remit for ensuring GC17 compliance. 8-)

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 31^st, 2015 at 10:58am:

derrick wrote on Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:39am: These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  ;) Thanks for pointing that out Derrick. ;) How time must have flown over xmas and new year as it seems like only five minutes since I tried using 18185 to call an 03 and was told it was not a standard rate number and so could not be carried by them. :'( Nonetheless the change by Finarea was not made until one month after my conversation with Mr Markham Sivak at Ofcom and I do not believe that Finarea would have changed policy without receiving polite intimations from Ofcom and others that they might face action for a breach of GC17 if they did not include 03 numbers in their same deal as calls to numbers commencing 01 and 02.  Mr Sivak was very definite that the service supplied by Finarea by Indirect Access most definitely came within Ofcom's remit for ensuring GC17 compliance. 8-)

#

This thread also confirms 03 numbers supported from about 6 weeks ago, http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1418962421.

Must try harder NGM ;D

Maybe you can try your contacts to get Finerea to support 055 numbers like those supplied by Santander, as they are charged at the same rates as 01/02/03 numbers.

.

derrick wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 10:24am:

Maybe you can try your contacts to get Finerea to support 055 numbers like those supplied by Santander, as they are charged at the same rates as 01/02/03 numbers.

Surely the difference Derrck is that even though many call package providers choose to include 055 numbers in their Anytime bundles or charge them at the same rate for out of bundle calls Ofcom has not included them within GC17 as numbers that must (by Ofcom regulatory mandate) be carried at the same rates as calls to geograpic 01, 02 numbers.

Therefore the only hope in this are is to lobby Ofcom to suggest that it needs to either expand the remit of GC17 to include 055 numbers of that Ofcom takes steps to allow all 055 numbers to be issued with 03 number replacements.

As to why Finarea changed their policy almost certainly they were receiving pressure from many quarters over not covering 03 numbers in their bundles.  This would of course have included Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert who has given their product extensive publicity in the past.

I believe it would be worth including 056 Numbers in your campaigning to Ofcom, as they are similar to the 055 numbers mentioned.

:)