SAYNOTO0870.COM - Beware payment by credit card

MrGumby

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Beware payment by credit card
Jul 7^th, 2004 at 6:04pm

18866 and 1899, among others, cannot accept direct debit payments. They say they are trying to find a solution, whetever that means, but they've been saying that for a very long time.

Think carefully before going ahead with credit card "continuous authority" for ANY service, especially if they are not known for excellence in customer service.

I have no reason to suppose that anyone will encounter problems with 18866 or 1899, but you won't catch me using them until they accept DD. If you'd been stung just once by continuous authority, as I have, then you wouldn't either. Here's why:

http://tinyurl.com/38vf6
http://tinyurl.com/2bkvv

Searching the Web for "continuous authority" will lead you to many more cautionary tales.

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2004 at 6:07pm by MrGumby »

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robert5988

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #1 - Jul 7^th, 2004 at 6:43pm

Thank goodness someone else has posted on this. I raised this subject on this forum a couple of months ago. I also Emailed the company which is registered in Switzerland.

You are really signing the equivilant of a 'blank cheque' at the moment if you go with companies with this type of payment scheme - although like you I have absolutely no reason to doubt the honesty of the current owners.

However they could sell the companies as a going concern to less scrupulous individuals and you wouldn't even know.

Much as I like a bargain - and they certainly provide them - I won't go near them until they get a direct debit.

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Peter Moore

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #2 - Jul 12^th, 2004 at 4:50pm

To all the banking novices out there. a continuous authority on a credit card is no worse than a direct debit. Ok you cant cancel them but ANY credit card company will willing research any disputed charges, freezing the charges until resolution and if nessassary cancel the card. You will also have a finite credit limit on your card. In contrast with a direct debit your bank account can be cleaned out with just one transaction! You try getting your money back from any bank once you've signed a direct debit mandate, it'll never happen! Use a credit card whenever possible i say.

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MrGumby

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #3 - Jul 13^th, 2004 at 8:12am

Well, Peter, I for one am not a "banking novice". And I have more than once got money back from a bank after funds were taken wrongly against a direct debit mandate.

In any case, don't take my word for it - I referred to just two articles, but there are plenty more on the Web. What evidence can you offer to support your case?

Sure, as you say, charges can only be made against a card up to the credit limit (although in practice credit limits are often exceeded), but I have a £15,000 limit on my main card and don't want £15,000 of incorrect phone charges on there. Whether or not with a single transaction, it would take a lot less than £15,000 to clear out my bank account!

And, yes, card companies will investigate complaints, but the onus is on the cardholder to prove that the charges were incorrect. Contrast that with cancelling a DD, which most of us can do online in a matter of seconds.

Even cancelling your card, a drastic step, does not stop a retailer taking funds against a continuous authority. The card issuer will then pursue you for payment. When you cancel a DD (NB just the DD, not the account), no more funds can be taken.

Here is a quote from BBC Moneybox:

"Everything was fine until he tried to cancel. He called the retailer - that did not work, so he called the card company. "They said they could not do it without the supplier instructing them that they would not be taking any more direct debits," he said. Robert decided to cancel his card but his account with the card company carried on, so the debts kept piling up."

Read the whole article at:

http://tinyurl.com/38vf6

Sorry, Peter, but, based on extensive and widely published evidence, you are wrong on this.

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Adrian Robson Guest	Re: Beware payment by credit card Reply #4 - Aug 7^th, 2004 at 10:07pm What about Maestro cards, which they also say they accept? Debit cards have different conditions from credit cards. But I can't work out from studying my bank's terms and conditions what the position would be if you used a debit card instead. Any advice from debit card experts?
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DaveM Global Moderator Offline Du vin, du pain, du Ibuprofen ¡ Posts: 845 Peterborough Gender:	Re: Beware payment by credit card Reply #5 - Aug 7^th, 2004 at 10:25pm There's only ONE expert you can trust for 1st hand information and that's the Card company/Bank you're with. Don't forget that opinions are like @§0£é$ - Everyone's got one !! Dont believe 2nd hand info unless you can verify it yourself, and then get it in writing if you can. Get the Banks response.
Back to top	« Last Edit: Aug 8^th, 2004 at 6:31pm by DaveM » It stops hurting when I stop banging it against the wall !! IP Logged

Stacey Cherny

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #6 - Aug 13^th, 2004 at 11:34am

I think direct debit is much riskier than credit card. I had a direct debit setup with the very reputable and customer service oriented BT a while ago and they overbilled me about £50 one month. I called them up to complain and they agreed the charges were wrong and would be credited back. I specifically asked to make sure that they wouldn't take the wrong amount on my direct debit and they assured me they wouldn't. When the direct debit hit, of course I was charged the extra £50. When I brought it up with my bank, they said I gave BT authority to charge it, so they couldn't help me. BT eventually gave me my money back, but it took 3 months and several phone calls.

In contrast, everytime something has appeared on my credit cards that I didn't authorize, I just call the credit card company and put the item in dispute and it is frozen. I don't have to pay it and no interest is charged for not paying it. And then either immediately or a few weeks later, the matter is resolved and the charge removed. I'd like to see a bank give you back money that they already paid someone else. It just doesn't happen.

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pelham9

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #7 - Aug 21^st, 2004 at 6:12pm

Stacey Cherny

SEE http://www.directdebit.co.uk/general_public/guarantee.php ; For the direct debit quatantee.

It is not uncommon for banks to drop out of this obligation. It is far easier for them to put the onus on you to dispute the matter with the debitor. They are obliged to reverse any direct debit at your request and though you gave BT permission to take money from your account it is your bank who has to put things right if you say there is an error. I have found that some banks actually teach their customer service operatives that it is up to you to sort it out and because they know no better they will argue that black is white. If they are one of the organisations who use 0870 numbers to complain write to the Managing director - it is no use going in at the bottom but spend as long as is necessary if you are on a 0800 numbser!!

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pelham9

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #8 - Aug 21^st, 2004 at 6:21pm

The can be no doubt that direct debits are far safer than credit card continuous authority.

The direct debit guarantee makes it obligatory for YOUR BANK to reverse any payment that you dispute.

Credit cards are however obliged to continue paying under a continuous authority even when you close the credit card account. You can stop them however by showing them a letter that you have written to the payee cancelling the arrangement and then by reporting any payment as fraudulent.

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pelham9 Newbie Offline Posts: 21	Re: Beware payment by credit card Reply #9 - Aug 21^st, 2004 at 6:34pm Sorry me again. I forgot to put in this link. http://www.financevictims.co.uk/credit-cards/continuous-credit-card-authorities.... which puts it better than I can.
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dorf

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #10 - Sep 3^rd, 2004 at 4:22pm

I have also had a few problems with getting Continuous Credit Card Authorities stopped in the past. However I have also had worse problems with Direct Debits. The so called "Direct Debit Guarantee Scheme is not worth the paper it is printed on. You try getting the money back from your bank when a payment has been wrongly made! They will do everything possible to thwart you, because your local branch is supposed to cough up the money and then get it from the entity which has wrongly debited it from your account. They don't want to do it and if you complain to the BBA about it they just stall!

So the truth is there are similar problems with CCCAs and DDs. At least with a credit card you can close the account and refuse to pay. That finally gets them to sort it out, which cannot be said for banks when they already have your money in the account and can just purloin it.

Actually I cannot understand how 1899 and 18866 can be making any money now with their calls costing only the connection charge. They have to pay the commission to the CC companies. I doubt that it can continue.

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Ofcom are completely ineffectual

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mypinknee Newbie Offline AKA Mr Grumpy Posts: 12 Glos Gender:	Re: Beware payment by credit card Reply #11 - Oct 2^nd, 2004 at 10:05am Why not have a dedicated credit card for use on the internet or to pay bills like those from 1886.com. I know a man who has done this for use on eBay and the card company has agreed to a very low limit on the credit allowance. Anyone out there done this? or have any views Mike
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Rick_B

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #12 - Oct 16^th, 2004 at 11:38am

Yes credit card companies it's much harder to stop the DDs than with banks once the order is in.
However you can phone them and say you've lost your card and that will force them to reissue it with another number.

Ultimately you can refuse to pay the credit card company.. you'll be blacklisted but it's virtually impossible for them to get the money.
Anyway where fraud is concerned on the side of the company illicitly drawing your cash you would be fully justified in doing this. And later proved so.

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Rick_B

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #13 - Oct 16^th, 2004 at 11:54am

I've just noticed your suggestions about giving over your debit card details instead of credit card details .............

NEVER DO THIS;

I remember there was a scam going for cheap unmetered internet companies 4 or 5 years ago and they pull customers by giving very low monthly rates or a one off payment "for life" of say £50 ........ then you'd get a 0800 dial up for unlimited free access.

Thing was the company would declare itself bankrupt after a couple of months because they'd got the line on credit from BT and never paid them, so when BT finally collected the companies scarpered with the money they got from the clients. Now if this was a credit card deal with Barclays or whatever you can claim that £50 back. I did this with a company called connect 25........... now do you think a bankrupt conman will have any intention of ever paying you back your cash from a debit card account?............LIKE HELL!

It could have been thousands, many people that were stung by paying with Debit cards never got anything ........be very wary of those.
Credit cards however if some rogue decides to take £15,000 and declare himself bankrupt ........then let barclays pay his wages because I for one will tell to tough luck I'm not paying you.
Credit are useful insurance against your personal cash being pilfered ........always use them ..........

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Beware payment by credit card
Reply #14 - Oct 16^th, 2004 at 2:54pm

I got "stung" by a company doing this, a few years ago. The company concerned was called "Buzzline" (notice the deliberate pun!!

It was in the days of promised cheap internet calls, when the only alternative was 0845 access. Some companies were genuine, and wanted a large customer base before BT gave proper rates, and others were fly by night operaters.

Buzzline however, took £50 for the 1st years service. I suspected them of being dodgy, hence paying with credit card.

They never launched their service, and it took a few e-mails to get the money back.

A few months later, they billed all their clients with a £500 bill. They were only in the business of getting credit card numbers, and since they refunded the money, most people didn't question them further.

Strange thing was, my wallet was stolen a few weeks afterwards, so I never got that £500 bill. It certainly proves that the best way to get rid of a company debiting your credit card, is to report it stolen and request a new one!!

It also brings into question about credit limits. For some people the £500 bill would make them nearer the limit, and whilst that transaction goes through, others might not, and it could cause all sorts of trouble with credit ratings, and fines for exceeding credit limits.

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