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Boycott 0870 companies? (Read 38,204 times)
jignashi
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Re: Boycott 0870 companies?
Reply #15 - Jan 26th, 2005 at 2:36pm
 
Boycotting may not be easy.
A better approach might be to list companies that DO NOT use any geographic numbers.
Surely, there must be many.
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jrawle
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Re: Boycott 0870 companies?
Reply #16 - Jan 27th, 2005 at 2:15pm
 
Quote:
Boycotting may not be easy.
A better approach might be to list companies that DO NOT use any geographic numbers.
Surely, there must be many.

A list of companies that don't use any non-geographic numbers is an excellent idea, and  would be a valuable addition to the site. However, companies that use 0800 numbers should be listed too - strictly speaking, they are non-geographic numbers too, but I for one don't complain when I have to call them!
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Dave
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Re: Boycott 0870 companies?
Reply #17 - Jan 27th, 2005 at 3:26pm
 
Quote:
Boycotting may not be easy.
A better approach might be to list companies that DO NOT use any geographic numbers.

That's a good idea!

There are also companies which I have written to pointing out what these numbers are, and they don't bother to reply. May be we could name and shame these. One such company is Miller Brothers who use 0870 numbers to contact their branches. I have emailed (who I believe is the MD) twice.

Many companies justify the use by telling us about the benefits. We are subsidising their phone system.

None have acknowledged revenue, despite mentioning it. So how come Ofcom talks about 'value-added' services which need 'revenue payments'?

None seem to be aware that 084/087 prices have been kept high so that payments can be made to telcos providing the numbers (who, in turn, share this with the terminating party ie them).

Ofcourse, it isn't just BT. These prices were kept high to allow other NGN providers into the market. We are now paying these providers for their services to their customers!
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portvendres
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Re: Boycott 0870 companies?
Reply #18 - Jan 28th, 2005 at 3:46pm
 
Re: Boycott 0870 companies? « Reply #2 on: Jun 19th, 2004, From jbp435.
Hi,
I’ve only just found the “saynoto…” site and saw your message.

You asked, “So how do we widely promote the message?” Have you seen the business section of the Sunday Times, 23rd Jan.?
It's also now on this forum, posted on 23rd Jan.
I've scanned it and sent it to everybody on my contacts list, over 500 people. If we all do the same, we MAY get somewhere with regard to “Publicizing” this diabolical RIP-OFF! As well broadcasting the existence of this site.
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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2005 at 4:10pm by portvendres »  

Kind regards,&&Bryan.
 
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portvendres
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Re: Boycott 0870 companies?
Reply #19 - Jan 28th, 2005 at 4:04pm
 
Quote:
One suggestion is that if you cannot find an alternative number on this site you can write, e-mail or Fax to them instead. This does admittedly take longer to get a response, but if lots of people do this it actually costs the company more to deal with than a simple telephone call to a Geographic number would and so makes the point in a very effective way.

You can also mention in your communication that the only reason you are doing this by other means is because they are not offering a normal Geographic number for communication with them, and you have a policy not to call Premium numbers or disguised Premium numbers. You can even state that you have barred all Premium numbers and disguised Premium numbers from your telephone, which is true if you have a "mental bar" on calling them - like me!


Hello DORF,
I concur with all you've said, especially regarding your "MentalBar".which also applies to myself. But, if I have no alternative but to use an 0870 number, as soon as I get through, I insist, that if they want my business, they call me back, and pay for the call. it often works. Except for one company my wife deals with, DAXON. they are impossible, with long waits etc.
Best Wishes.
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Kind regards,&&Bryan.
 
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jg4fun
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More from the Sunday Times
Reply #20 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 10:23am
 

January 30, 2005
A&L ‘forces savers to use rip-off numbers’
A reader says the bank subjected him to a ‘Gestapo-style interrogation’ when he tried to avoid its 0870 line. By Jessica Bown
ALLIANCE & LEICESTER has angered consumer lobbyists by refusing to accept calls from a customer trying to avoid high 0870 telephone charges.
Most of the big banks use 0845 numbers for their customer-service lines. These cost up to 5p a minute and can make the companies about Åp a minute.
But Alliance & Leicester insists that customers call an 0870 number for general information about its accounts. These lines cost up to 10p a minute and can make about 2Åp a minute for the bank.
Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, is investigating the use of 0845 and 0870 lines after complaints from consumers who believe companies using the numbers unnecessarily prolong calls to increase revenue.
Last week The Sunday Times suggested a way to get round paying rip-off rates to call banks and other companies on these numbers.
So-called special service numbers such as 0845 and 0870 do not work when called from overseas. The banks must therefore give customers an alternative number if they are travelling abroad. But these numbers also work from within Britain — you simply remove the +44 UK code and add a zero.
Alternative local-code numbers for many well-known firms are also available through the website Saynoto0870.com.
Last week’s story drew a big response from readers who have faced larger than expected phone bills after calling 0845 or 0870 lines.
Mick Fowell, a retired contracts manager from Gimingham in Norfolk, used the local-code number to call his bank, Alliance & Leicester, in the way we suggested.
He said it worked the first time, but when he called the same number again a few hours later he was questioned and told he would have to call the 0870 line because he was telephoning from Britain.
Fowell, 66, said: “I was delighted to find a way round calling these expensive numbers. But I was subjected to a Gestapo-style interrogation when I used the local code to call the bank again.
“When I confessed I wasn’t calling from abroad I was told, very firmly, that my call was not acceptable and that I must call the 0870 number instead. The same thing happened when I tried again later that day. I am so disgusted that I am considering switching to a rival bank.”
A spokesman for Alliance & Leicester said: “It is not generally our policy to refuse to take calls from customers who call the international local-code number from within Britain.
“But we would urge people to use the normal customer-services number because it puts them through the automated security system. This is designed to ensure that they get through to the right person as quickly as possible.”
Alliance & Leicester refused to disclose how much money it makes through its 0870 customer services line because it is “commercially sensitive information”.
The bank argues that anyone calling the local-code numbers from outside the local area would pay a national rate that costs the same per minute as an 0870 call.
However, the national-rate cost of an 0870 number is based on BT’s now-defunct standard plan, and many people can now call other parts of the country much more cheaply.
Some even have a set amount of free minutes included in their contracts, but these do not apply to 0845 and 0870 numbers. There is always a charge for calls to such lines.
Alan Williams of Which?, the consumer lobbyist, said: “Calling 0845 and 0870 numbers is dearer than calling local-code lines for lots of people.
“We think it’s wrong of the bank to refuse to accept calls from people using the local-code number and would like to see all companies offering customers an alternative to 0845 or 0870 lines.”
Some readers also wrote in expressing disappointment that Ofcom was not doing more to prevent banks and other companies from boosting profits by charging customers more for access to basic services.
Maurice Redman from Edinburgh said: “ The government should either make Ofcom put a stop to this scam or replace it with an organisation that will.”
Ofcom cannot introduce price ceilings for telecoms companies other than the dominant provider — BT. But it plans to reduce BT’s price ceilings to 4p and 8p a minute respectively and is considering handing responsibility for the policing of 0845 and 0870 numbers to Icstis, the premium-rate phoneline regulator.
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idb
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Re: More from the Sunday Times
Reply #21 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 2:07pm
 
[quote author=jg4fun  link=1089284703/15#20 date=1107080612]
January 30, 2005
A&L ‘forces savers to use rip-off numbers’
A reader says the bank subjected him to a ‘Gestapo-style interrogation’ when he tried to avoid its 0870 line. By Jessica Bown
ALLIANCE & LEICESTER has angered consumer lobbyists by refusing to accept calls from a customer trying to avoid high 0870 telephone charges. [...]
[/quote]
In most other countries, this action by A+L would simply not be tolerated. It is just staggering that the regulatory authorities, the ones that exist to protect the public, allow A+L to refuse calls on its real number rather than its rip off one. This should be stopped by either the telecommunication regulator, the banking regulator or both. The fact that it isn't just shows how ineffective, impotent and incompetent these public bodies really are. Do they serve the public? - not a hope.
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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Dave
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Re: More from the Sunday Times
Reply #22 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 7:18pm
 
Quote:
... It is just staggering that the regulatory authorities, the ones that exist to protect the public, allow A+L to refuse calls on its real number rather than its rip off one. ...

Of course the regulator will call this a 'value-added' service. The bank, apparently, does not make enough money.
Roll Eyes

Why is it that ISPs can provide 'pay as you go' internet with the revenue generated by 0845, but poor Alliance & Leicester require the revenue of 0870?
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« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2005 at 7:18pm by Dave »  
 
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trevorg
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Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #23 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 2:38pm
 
My wife and I are so fed up with companies which use 0870 and 0845 numbers for their customer service phone lines that we have decided that in future before purchasing a product we will check the customer service number and if they use 0845 or 0870 we will not buy their product.

If everybody did that the use of such numbers would cease.

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joe65
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #24 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 3:58pm
 
Great Idea.

Make sure to tell them and Why your doing it.

Better still if you've been a long standing customer of some such offending institution , tell them you're leaving and why.

Bear in mind though in most cases they'll be as misled as everyone else and require educating & convincing to change their misguided ways.

(Don't be so hard on them if they at least give equal prominence to a geographic alternative 'though.)
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There are those who count,&&An' those who cann't,&&An' those who count  on the both of 'em.
 
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joe65
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #25 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 4:02pm
 
Should we maybe start (if there isn't one already) a list of organisations who avoid them altogether, or better still have given them up ?

The datababase on this site effectively only recognises / identifies offenders.
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There are those who count,&&An' those who cann't,&&An' those who count  on the both of 'em.
 
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trevorg
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #26 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 4:25pm
 
What a good idea.

However, how do we start such a database?


Trevor
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joe65
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #27 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 4:31pm
 
Well, until it gets to any size, keep it simple, like a thread in this forum, in a similar vein to, eg :-
this post
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« Last Edit: Oct 17th, 2005 at 4:38pm by joe65 »  

There are those who count,&&An' those who cann't,&&An' those who count  on the both of 'em.
 
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Keith
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #28 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 4:38pm
 

The 0870/0845 numbers arer so prevalent that it is pretty well impossible to avoid these companies, although I have found that my bill has reduced considerably with the excellent alternative numbers found on this site (I'm on BT Option 3 so 0845/0870 can have a big impact as I'm not paying for other calls)

I do agree that if you can find an alternative supplier who uses geographic numbers and everything else is equal you should transfer your business and tell the original supplier why.

I wonder how much first time business these suppliers miss out on. If I'm looking for something I will always call those supplying geographic number first. If I find 2 or 3 and at least one of those meets my price and quality requirements the decision is made and the 0870/0845 suppliers have missed out on my business (even if I could have looked them up on this site).

As more people become aware of the 0870/0845 issue more companies who use these numbers (for sales enquiries) are going to lose out to competitors who don't. The problem is they won't see (for quite sometime anyway) why they lost the business, because they will have not got the calls in the first place.

Of course the worst offenders are those that use 0800 for sales and 0870 for after sales calls (particularly complaints!)

Re the suggestion of a list of suppliers who use geographic numbers or have changed to geographic number - I think that is an excellent idea. I would certainly use it and add to it.
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gdh82
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Re: Boycot Companies using 0870 and 0845 numbers
Reply #29 - Oct 17th, 2005 at 5:52pm
 
I agree too - a good idea.

Why not also have a list of those companies who not only use 0870/0845 but who determinedly refuse to provide geographic equivalent numbers.
  Or is that most companies?  (I'm still a newbie here and am just starting to ask for geo numbers as I need them so to post here later)

Thanks

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« Last Edit: Oct 17th, 2005 at 5:53pm by gdh82 »  

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc
 
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