SAYNOTO0870.COM - more on BBC Radio 4 investigation

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #45 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 1:16pm

There was a further good item on today's BBC Radio 4 You & Yours program (March 31st).

www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/shows/rpms/radio4/youandyours_thu.ram

It starts at 8 minutes 40 seconds and features the MP Paul Tyler plus another 0870 campaigner who had drawn their attention to Ofcom's use of an 0845 contact phone number in every current BT phone book. Unfortunately John Waite stupidly called this the Yellow Pages even though both the program producer, Dan Saladino and the reporter, Melanie Abbott knew perfectly well it was The Phone Book.

Ofcom was allowed to get away with the 0845 BT Phone Book "Local Call Rate" contact number outrage by You & Yours on the basis that it was just a mistake but strange then that this mistake has still not been corrected by BT over 9 months after Ofcom first claimed to have tried to tell them to do so.

If this is how much notice BT generally takes of requests from Ofcom for action then what hope is there of Ofcom being able to regulate anything else?!

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kk Senior Member Offline Posts: 354 Gender:	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #46 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 1:27pm The link to the BT web site (see reply #1 and #5 in “Premium Rate Definition” ) shows that BT define both 0870 and 0845 as “Premium Rate Special Numbers”. Surprisingly, this conflicts with the statement in the Phone Book about 0845 being “local call rate”.
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #47 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 1:33pm

Quote:

The link to the BT web site (see reply #1 and #5 in “Premium Rate Definition” ) shows that BT define both 0870 and 0845 as “Premium Rate Special Numbers”. Surprisingly, this conflicts with the statement in the Phone Book about 0845 being “local call rate”.

Elsewhere in the initial pages of all current BT Phone Books 0845 and 0870 number codes are shown correctly under a heading that makes it clear they are Premium Rate but then against the entries in the information section for Ofcom, The Samaritans and a few other useful organisations 0845 numbers are quoted alongside the words "local call rate"

BT Phone Book complaints have now told me they have discussed my complaint with Ofcom with the Office of the Telecommunications Ombudsman (Otelo) but they don't tell me what they plan to do about the problem.

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bigjohn

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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #48 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 2:12pm

Another thing that needs to be looked at is the NHS use of 0845 numbers to contact the out of ours GP service.In my part of the world Dorset and Southampton you have to call 0845 no,s to speak to a doctor.Yet there is no need to do this as the majority of people are only a local call away.Dorset Police thought about having a non emergency 0845 no,but decided to offer normal landline no 222222 with access from 01202 and 01305 dialling codes.Much more sensible.Come to think why do Hampshire and Sussex Police use 0845 access numbers perhaps they are getting a cut of the revenue generated.

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BJ.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #49 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 2:29pm

Quote:

Come to think why do Hampshire and Sussex Police use 0845 access numbers perhaps they are getting a cut of the revenue generated.

Surrey Police also now have a totally faceless call centre on 0845 which answers the calls quickly but which everyone hates because the staff have no local area knowledge.

The reason they did it of course was because they got the call centre phone equipment and ongoing maintenance cheaper because of the subsidy from the members of the public calling them. Nominally they don't get the money directly but as they pay less for the equipment and the phone system maintenance in practice they do get the cash.

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GrahamH Junior Member Offline Posts: 52	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #50 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 2:40pm Does anyone know the costs of such equipment and maintenance, if purchased on its own? (ie without a cross-subsidy from 084/087 revenue)
Back to top	What's the point of 0845? Local rate my ar$e. Usually MORE than Inverness to Penzance on normal nos. Occasionally the same, never less!&&&&OFCOM - A Truly Great Regulator, if you're out to gouge consumers IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #51 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 3:08pm

Quote:

Does anyone know the costs of such equipment and maintenance, if purchased on its own? (ie without a cross-subsidy from 084/087 revenue)

It costs a lot less than people like Surrey Police get persuaded that it is worth by the company who sells it. But as they think they are getting it free and it is only the poor old public who pays the bill through the 0845 calls they don't ask too many questions.

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GrahamH

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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #52 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 5:20pm

If a journalist were able to get some gormless PC purchasing officer up for interview......

"So officer - you've saved Surrey Constabulary a one-off couple of hundred £££ on equipment - but do you realise the general public now has to pay £X thousand every year in premium rate costs as a result?"

Multiply by 300 doctors' surgeries, add in all the other state bodies, and the bill would be a big number, hopefully enough to get some big cheeses to take notice.

Trouble is we don't yet know the savings and extra cost numbers to use to make the case...

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What's the point of 0845? Local rate my ar$e. Usually MORE than Inverness to Penzance on normal nos. Occasionally the same, never less!&&&&OFCOM - A Truly Great Regulator, if you're out to gouge consumers

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kk Senior Member Offline Posts: 354 Gender:	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #53 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 5:43pm Hi Graham Send a request for the information under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
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GrahamH Junior Member Offline Posts: 52	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #54 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 6:41pm Quote: Hi Graham Send a request for the information under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Doh!!! I should have thought of that. Done now - hope I haven't sped through too many revenue cameras recently though...
Back to top	What's the point of 0845? Local rate my ar$e. Usually MORE than Inverness to Penzance on normal nos. Occasionally the same, never less!&&&&OFCOM - A Truly Great Regulator, if you're out to gouge consumers IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #55 - Mar 31^st, 2005 at 7:15pm Quote: Done now - hope I haven't sped through too many revenue cameras recently though... They only have 2 weeks to prosecute you for any GATSO camera offence so not much to worry about there. But who have you asked for the information from? Surrey Police?
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GrahamH Junior Member Offline Posts: 52	Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation Reply #56 - Apr 1^st, 2005 at 10:48am Quote: But who have you asked for the information from? Surrey Police? I tried Herts police, due to where I live. They have a similar 0845 set-up. I used kk's handy FOI request templateand then added a few extras about the kit and maintenance
Back to top	What's the point of 0845? Local rate my ar$e. Usually MORE than Inverness to Penzance on normal nos. Occasionally the same, never less!&&&&OFCOM - A Truly Great Regulator, if you're out to gouge consumers IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #57 - Apr 1^st, 2005 at 2:38pm

I'm rather disappointed that nobody has commented on the You & Yours 0870 item on Radio 4 yesterday.

The link to it can be found at the top of this Page (Page 4).

The item yesterday was particularly good as You & Yours have finally taken on board that 0845 is almost as bad as 0870 and that the price difference of calling these numbers is huge for anyone on an inclusive calling plan like BT Option 3. They also exposed Ofcom for the useless timewasters they are by still having their own 0845 number in every BT phonebook and also refusing to permanently close down their 0845 number.

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mikeinnc

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Ofcom - quis custodiet
ipsos custodes?

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Perth Western Australia
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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #58 - Apr 1^st, 2005 at 4:40pm

Quote:

I'm rather disappointed that nobody has commented on the You & Yours 0870 item on Radio 4 yesterday.

Ahhh! The power of the Internet - sitting and listening to 'You and Yours' in North Carolina!

I thought the segment on NGNs was very good - but there was one exchange that concerned me. The announcer stated that '...the practice of using premium rate numbers to doctor's surgeries had now been stopped...' and the MP, Paul Tyler agreed. Well, as all readers to this site know, that is simply not true. All that has happened is that the 0870 numbers have been transferred to 0844 - and it would appear that there is no mechanism in place to stop a surgery practice signing up for such a system in the future, as long as they use 0844. Shouldn't someone be writing to Paul Tyler AND 'You and Yours' to point out the error? Otherwise, It will simply be pushed off the radar...... Sad

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: more on BBC Radio 4 investigation
Reply #59 - Apr 1^st, 2005 at 4:54pm

Quote:

I thought the segment on NGNs was very good - but there was one exchange that concerned me. The announcer stated that '...the practice of using premium rate numbers to doctor's surgeries had now been stopped...' and the MP, Paul Tyler agreed. Well, as all readers to this site know, that is simply not true. All that has happened is that the 0870 numbers have been transferred to 0844 - and it would appear that there is no mechanism in place to stop a surgery practice signing up for such a system in the future, as long as they use 0844. Shouldn't someone be writing to Paul Tyler AND 'You and Yours' to point out the error? Otherwise, It will simply be pushed off the radar...... Sad

Yes I agree it was wrong that Paul Tyler settled for the nonsense that the change to 0844 by the doctors was any sort of improvement. Especially as doctors surgeries are open on Saturday and people have to call them then at 5p per minute on 0844 from a BT home landline compared to only 1.5p per minute on 0870!

I don't know what Mr Tyler's excuse is as I emailed both him and Howare Stoate MP previously to point out that it cost 13p per minute to call an 0844 number from a phonebox at all times compared to 2p per minute for other geographic uk numbers and 11p per minute for 0845 and 0870.

I suggested you all email tylerp@parliament.uk to express your disquiet on the matter. He does read his email. I have been getting receipts for them a day or two after sending.

By the way the BBC have plans to charge you for the privilege of listening to You & Yours in North Carolina in due course. Enjoy it for free while it lasts!

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