SAYNOTO0870.COM - Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip

PhilH

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Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Nov 17^th, 2004 at 12:10am

Anyone know if recipients of calls can tell if their 0870 No. or the geographic equivalent was used ?

I have tried to phone SKY 7 times using one of the geographic numbers, each time waited 16 mins in a queue and was then cut off - a total of over 100 mins.
My last time was at 23:45 ( nearly midnight ) and still the same result.
Using an 0870 number this would have cost me a fortune rather than the few pence it did using Call18866.
However, I wonder whether my calls never reach the end of the queue as they can detect that I am not using their 0870 number.

Any thoughts ?

Phil

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by rec Reply #1 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 12:24am CLI (calling line identification) is the number that comes up on your mobile, or caller ID display for a landline, if you have it. It is also what you get when you dial 1471. So when someone calls you on your 0870 the CLI may show your own 0870 number. See here. Note that this is an optional service.
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PhilH

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #2 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 9:32am

Hi Dave

Thanks for reply. I was somewhat familliar with the CLI system but I am not entirely clear about your comment w.r.t. my query.

Are you saying that when I phone SKY they can automatically detect that I am using the Geographic Equivalent ( posted on this site ) rather than their preferred 0870 number and can thus keep me at the bottom of their queuing system so that my calls are never answered ?

I always get through and get the familiar "sorry to keep you waiting" etc crap but never apparently get to the end of the queue.

Sorry to be so thick.

Phil

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Tanllan

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #3 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 11:11am

When the 0870 holder (the callee? ugh) receives your call they do not know whether you dialled 0870 XXX XXXX or the 01 or 02X delivery number; that is the physical line to which the 0870 etc is translated and delivered after all the operators have taken their cut.

Save perhaps by the lack of abuse because we use 18866 etc...

The only possible way of finding out is if they read this website and change to a different delivery number whilst leaving the published one running but unanswered, or answered tardily.

I hope that this helps.

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PhilH

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #4 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 11:27am

Thanks Tanllan

So this means that the poor guys who phone SKY using 0870 numbers get the same lack of response that I have been getting. Wow !

I wonder if SKY's rake off from the 0870 numbers exceeds the custom they must lose from not being able to conact them.
However, possibly when you have a monopoly, people are prepared to spend a fortune on telephone calls and wait for hours just to contact you.

Phil

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #5 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 11:32am

It is quite possible that customers calling their 0870 numbers get the same treatment. Remember that they get more money from 0870 if they keep people on hold longer (especially during office hours!!)

There are stories about companies doing this, and since probably only 2-3% of customers would research for a geographical number, then chances are that 0870 would have got the same result, and cost alot more!!

I even get kept on hold on other companies freephone numbers for over 10 minutes when they're busy, meaning they're paying for the privilege of playing me music prior to customer service.

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Dave

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by rec
Reply #6 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 2:51pm

Quote:

Hi Dave

Thanks for reply. I was somewhat familliar with the CLI system but I am not entirely clear about your comment w.r.t. my query.

There are a number of possibilities:

The geographical number you have is not the one the 0870 translates to.
The geographical number is the one the 0870 translates to and the queing you are experiencing is normal. Only a call to the 0870 will tell you how long you have to wait on it.
The CLI that Sky receive may be set to their 0870 when a call is made to the 0870. So you ring 0870..., the call comes in and it looks, to Sky, as though it is coming from 0870... If you call the geographical number directly the CLI number is obviously your own number. I cannot say whether Sky have this feature, only Sky can answer that one.

If you are on an 'unlimited' call package or call in the evening/weekend on (for example) BT Together Option 1, it's 5.5p for upto an hour, so you're not paying to wait for half an hour or more.

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PhilH

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #7 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 3:52pm

Thanks Dave

I actually use 18866 - only 1p per call to UK geographic numbers. Superb !

I am using the gegraphic translations for the various SKY Depts. shown on this site. From the automatic reply it seems that I am at the correct Dept.
I don't fancy clocking up a large bill to test if dialing their 0870 number gets me through in less than 1 1/2 hours.

Perhaps the very long queues are normal - I might try next in the middle of the night - they do say a 24 hour service

Re. your last comment re BT's 5.5 per hour - I did not think this applied to 0870 numbers - only to geographic numbers.

Phil

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« Last Edit: Nov 17^th, 2004 at 3:58pm by PhilH »

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #8 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 4:24pm

No landline provider include 0870 numbers as part of an all you can phone package, however there are various schemes to get free calls to 01, and 02 numbers.

My mobile is t-mobile, and my inclusive minutes are only for landlines and t-mobiles off peak, and they do state in the small print, it excludes non geographic numbers, which even means it excludes freephone!!

If 0870 costed the same as normal calls, then sites like this wouldn't exist.

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Dave

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by rec
Reply #9 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 4:26pm

Quote:

Re. your last comment re BT's 5.5 per hour - I did not think this applied to 0870 numbers - only to geographic numbers.

It doesn't include 0870s, but if you call the geographical number and have to hang on for upto an hour you are not paying any more for your call than if it lasted 2 minutes. OK, so you have to listen to their hold music and messages telling you that your call is important to them etc., but you've not paid them for the privilage!

If you have BT Together Option 1, the 5.5p for upto an hour only applies in the evening and weekend. Evening is 18:00-08:00 Mon-Fri.

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wlf

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #10 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 4:34pm

The problem is occurring because you're using 18866.

http://forum.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Telephone;action=...

Quote:

DON’T USE 18866 TO CALL SKY. Those using call18866 (see cheapest home phone calls) shouldn’t use it to call Sky’s customer service centre. The way it works means Sky can see it as an overseas number, and I’ve heard reports of them cutting people off assuming they’re wrongly using it frm abroad. (discuss sky/call18866 problem)

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PhilH

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #11 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 4:46pm

Thanks wlf

Looks like problem is identified and solved - well at least why I am cut off after 16 mins

I will try using th BT 5.5p per hour option tonight - hopefully should get to the end of the queue within an hour.

If the queues however, are normally more than 16 mins long and most people are using 0870, they must be making a mint with ther 2p/min rake-off

I'll bet that does not show up explicitly in their accounts.

Cheers

Phil

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #12 - Nov 17^th, 2004 at 4:52pm

In fairness to some of these companies, they make most revenue from 0870 during office hours. Some companies that I've visited don't offer payouts evenings and weekends, as the cost of calling 0870 is less.

However some companies with high call volumes such as Sky, might be getting about 1p minute evenings, and possibly about 0.5p weekends.

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PhilH

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Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip
Reply #13 - Nov 21^st, 2004 at 3:19pm

You still around wlf ?

My joy ( see my last post ) with apparent solution to 16 min cut off with calls to SKY short lived.

I tried using the geographic numbers direct through BT ( i.e. without the 18866 predial ) and the same thing happened - cut off after 16 mins.
So, cause of 16 min cut off is not simply due to the use of 18866.

Phil

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robert5988 Newbie Offline Posts: 19	Re: Is use of 0870 or Equiv. detected by recip Reply #14 - Nov 21^st, 2004 at 3:34pm A couple of firms I have rung using geographic numbers have tried to get me to redial using their NGN No - so these particular firms are aware of the number you dialled.
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