SAYNOTO0870.COM - What will Ofcom do?

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #60 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 7:18pm

Quote:

Its strange the document is still in fact there when a use of Ofcom's Search function for "Leicester City Council" and "price indication" produced no result. How exactly did you manage to find it?

I looked for the consultation on the Ofcom site. I assumed that they'd just moved some stuff and that even Ofcom wouldn't just delete it to make room on their server or for some other reason.

You obviously gave up after searching and sent Ofcom another email. Maybe dealing with Ofcom brings out a pessimistic attitude in you. Roll Eyes

Anyway, you asked, so here it is:

In my email to Manchester TS, here, I mentioned the consultation title and date. Armed with that information, I went to the Ofcom site, selected Consultations -> Consultation Documents. Filter: Telecoms. They are in cronological order, so look at last page. Hey Presto! Just one consultation published on 26/09/03.

Back to top

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #61 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 7:57pm

Quote:

Anyway, you asked, so here it is:

In my email to Manchester TS, here, I mentioned the consultation title and date. Armed with that information, I went to the Ofcom site, selected Consultations -> Consultation Documents. Filter: Telecoms. They are in cronological order, so look at last page. Hey Presto! Just one consultation published on 26/09/03.

I can see that armed with that information Dave that hunting for the needle amongst the haystack that is the Ofcom Consultations area would not be quite such a daunting task.

But why oh why doesn't their search function across the whole website properly. You would think that specialists in broadcasting and telecommunications would be able to get such things right. After all they don't even have the usual excuse of being only bumbling civil servants who are no good at the commercial management of information.

But then of course I have not allowed for their own cunning masterplan of always passing off their glaring favouritism towards the commercial interests of the telecoms and broadcasting industries as being just a matter of simple ineptitude on their part Roll Eyes

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 7:57pm by N/A »

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #62 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 9:07pm

The latest information on the Ofcom site that I can find on the state of play with regards NTS is the minutes of the NTS Focus Group meeting on 11 July 2005 (see here). That even says another consultation would be ready by 3 August.

The lastest NTS Focus Group meeting was last Friday, 16 September.

The Ofcom Consumer Panel attacked Ofcom's Options for the Future document with regards lack of concern for the general consumer in its response:
Quote:

15. Our understanding is that there is no external pressure driving Ofcom to conclude its review of NTS by a particular date. There is therefore time for Ofcom to take careful stock of this consultation and to consider the issues noted above: the strength of the evidence base; the rigour with which the consumer interest has been analysed; the way in which the consumer interest has driven – or not – the regulatory balance that is being proposed.
16. The Panel’s advice to Ofcom is, for all of these reasons, to reconsider its proposed approach to the NTS regime.

That said, disappointingly, the Panel's meetings notes stop at May 2005.

Back to top

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #63 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 9:27pm

I emailed Colette Bowe, Chairman of the Ofcom Consumer Panel, to express my concern about the way that Ofcom's thinking appeared to be developing at the NTS Focus Group meetings. Specifically that they once again appeared to have forgotten about their mission to primarily consider the interests of citizens and consumers.

This was some weeks ago but unfortunately she has not so far seen fit to reply.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #64 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 9:40pm

The NTS Focus Group is for a specific part of the industry:
Quote:

1. The NTS Focus Group is an Ofcom sponsored industry group open to network operators who have an interconnect agreement with BT. The purpose of the group is to act as a forum for the discussion of a broad range of issues relating to the regulation, charging and operation of the UK Number Translation Services regime.

2. The aim of the group is to prioritise and address the NTS issues faced by network operator stakeholders. In particular, the group will focus on issues relating to the arrangements for NTS call origination, operator interaccounting / billing and the continued development of the UK's NTS market.

See Terms of Reference.

Back to top

IP Logged

pelham9

Newbie

Offline

Posts: 21

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #65 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 10:20pm

Sorry everyone but this is somewhat off topic

Grimp

Because this topic has recently been reopened I looked back over past posts and found mine in March to which you replied and I must apologised that I missed your posts.

I did indeed follow your advice and applied by email for access to write a blog on Ofcomwatch. I was subjected to a phone interview by I suppose one of those who run the site. I was asked on what kind of subjects I would offer articles. There was a distinct lack of interest when I replied that I would like to blog about the 0870/0845 controversy which I felt was not well represented on the site. I was not accepted to blog.

So much for your 'it is open to all'. I would suggest it might be open to all 'if you do not upset our sponsers' A site called Ofcomwatch that does not address the 0845/0870 issue and which claimed it had some influence with Ofcom is not only not watching Ofcom but might reinforce Ofcom's stance that the general public is not interested.

Back to top

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #66 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 11:06pm

Quote:

I did indeed follow your advice and applied by email for access to write a blog on Ofcomwatch. I was subjected to a phone interview by I suppose one of those who run the site. I was asked on what kind of subjects I would offer articles. There was a distinct lack of interest when I replied that I would like to blog about the 0870/0845 controversy which I felt was not well represented on the site. I was not accepted to blog.

Matt Peacock at Ofcom suggested I should try to contribute to Ofcomwatch but when I looked at their site I was not convinced that they would be appreciative of Saynoto0870 style contributions. So I didn't bother to apply.

So far as I can see Ofcom and OfcomWatch are well suited to one another as both of them avoid all of the really big issues currently facing the telecoms industries.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2005 at 4:24pm by N/A »

IP Logged

idb

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 1,499
Miami, Florida, United States
Gender: male

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #67 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 3:05pm

Quote:

I wrote to Ofcom just yesterday asking this very same question together with a date when the last NTS focus group notes will be made available. So far, no response. The usual pattern with my communication with Ofcom relating to NTS is that it ignores my request until I submit it a second time as a FOI request. If no reaponse to what is a very simple request is received by Tuesday, it will be submitted as a FOI. What a crazy situation.

No response was received, however, a FOI request submitted elicits an almost immediate reply from Ofcom. It is incredible that this organization is unwilling to answer NTS questions from the public unless they are part of a FOI request. Anyway, the substantive part of the reply is as follows:

<<
The conclusion of the "NTS Options for the future" consultation is due to be published this week and will be made available on Ofcom’s website. Copies of the minutes of the NTS Focus Group held on Thursday August 11, 2005 at 2.00pm have not been made available to Ofcom. However; upon receipt of these I will forward a copy to you.
>>

Ofcom failed to respond to my question as to why it has taken nine months to publish an outcome.

Back to top

As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.

IP Logged

hoxne Junior Member Offline Posts: 57	Re: What will Ofcom do? Reply #68 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 3:31pm There is no need to mention FOI in a request for information, for the request to be covered by FOI Act. However, asking a question of an organisation is not necessarily the same thing as requesting information that they hold.
Back to top	IP Logged

idb

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 1,499
Miami, Florida, United States
Gender: male

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #69 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 3:40pm

Quote:

There is no need to mention FOI in a request for information, for the request to be covered by FOI Act.

However, asking a question of an organisation is not necessarily the same thing as requesting information that they hold.

Agreed, but this wholly incompetent and clueless agency has never replied to any question or request for information that I have submitted unless that question or information request is shaped into a FOI submission.

By using FOI, the agency *has* to respond within a given timeframe, although UKPS and Hertfordshire coppers seem to have an examption to ignore that requirement.

In fairness to Ofcom, it has always met the twenty working day requirement in its responses to my submissions.

Back to top

As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: What will Ofcom do?
Reply #70 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 4:35pm

Quote:

Agreed, but this wholly incompetent and clueless agency has never replied to any question or request for information that I have submitted unless that question or information request is shaped into a FOI submission.

That is because the Ofcom Contact Centre to whom you presumably initially ask your always ignored non FOI questions is manned by staff who have been trained by the so called Contact Centre management team to show nothing but outright contempt or disdain for any customer complaint or enquiry.

This corrosive culture of incompetence and cynicism seemingly emanates from the way the telecoms part of the contact centre was set up in OFTEL days and I can only assume these senior managers in the Ofcom Contact Centre must previously have worked for either BT Customer Services or possibly for British Rail. Roll Eyes

But if you submit an FOI the Contact Centre staff seem to have been trained that these enquiries are from intelligent people who might cause them some trouble and where the "treat with contempt and ignore" normal contact centre approach does not work so your email then escapes from the Ofcom Contact Centre into other parts of Ofcom where able, competent and conscientious members of staff are in some cases employed to respond.

Any non FOI complaint to the Ofcom Contact Centre invariably gets the response that Ofcom is not responsible for this issue and so there is nothing it can do! That is even when Ofcom is actually responsible for taking action on the particular issue concerned. Shocked

By the way have you noticed that we are now nearly in October. Perhaps we should submit an FOI request to Ofcom to ask for its definition of the words August and September Wink

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2005 at 4:38pm by N/A »

IP Logged