I sometimes refer to it as my favourite comedy program.

No, I am sure it is the Capita group again, the lot that run the Congestion charge in London, I think they also run the Licence Fee gathering for the BBC. I think they were behind various other failed government IT schemes as well, but they always seem to get the work. But the BBC always claim that therefore that the 0870 is nothing to do with them. I have written many times to Watchdog, You and Yours and Feedback, to get them to raise the subject with Capita, but naturally to no avail,

cheers

Flutty

Yes, all three of the programmes have come out against the use of 0870 numbers, the point I am making is that they ALL continue to use 0870 numbers. When challenged on this they use the defence that the call centres are not run by the BBC so therefore beyond their control. Which is of course nonsense, as I asume they agree the contracts in the first place??
???

I wrote to Watchdog and have just received their reply as shown below. I choose at this stage not to identify the signatory but would really appreciate comments from the more experienced SAYNO members amongst you - before issuing my considered reply.
The letter writer certainly appears to be genuinely trying to explain and I'm inclined to appreciate that ...but are they wrong ? Is there a better cheaper way for them to carry out their function ?
Obviously their view that the 0870 is NOT Premium rate is open to a variety of comment !

Lavillegour


Let me try to clear up some of the confusion surrounding 0870 numbers and why Watchdog uses one.

0870 numbers are NOT premium rate numbers.  Calls to our number cost up to 8 pence a minute (8 a.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays) and 5 pence a minute (6 p.m. to 8 a.m. weekdays) and the BBC receives no income whatsoever from these calls. With average call lengths of one minute thirty seconds, it is therefore cheaper to call the BBC than sending us a letter using a first or second class stamp.  The reason for using an 0870 number is partly to enable us to give a better service to callers by allowing us to route the calls more efficiently and deploy call automation to handle peak demands.  Some of these technical benefits would not be available if we were to use geographical numbers instead (ie: those beginning 0207 for London or 0161 for Manchester etc) or would cost the BBC extra to provide, and that would take money out of programme making and could effect the level of service we are able to offer the viewer.    It is also thought to be fairer to all of our viewers for a call to cost the same no matter where in the country you are calling from.  With an 0870 number our viewers in Scotland pay exactly the same as those in London.

OFCOM will be reviewing the use of 0870 numbers in August and we will of course follow any recommendations or rulings that they make.

I hope this helps you understand the reasoning behind why we use this number.  The interests of our viewers is always of paramount importance to us and we will continue to review the situation to ensure the most appropriate number is used to suit the needs of the public who use this service.

Best wishes

Quote:


The latest revised Central Office of Information Guidance shows that there is actually a cheaper way for the BBC to handle these calls.  Its called "intelligent routing on Standard Geographical Numbers"  Don't take my word for it but check out the COI guidance here:-


www.coi.gov.uk/documents/ccg-update.pdf

As the BBC is ultimately a taxpayer owned operation you can make a very strong case that they should be following the COI guidance right now and not be waiting for any future Ofcom guidance, which is really only relevant for commercial companies who are currently allowed to profiteer from 0870 calls.

The BBC does profit from these 0870 calls in many ways indirectly because it gets a special deal with Cable & Wireless for setting up ad-hoc 0870 numbers for certain programs at short notice that Cable & Wireless doesn't do for anyone else.  The BBC also appear to get big discounts on their outgoing call costs from Cable & Wireless that they wouldn't get if Cable & Wireless wasn't profiting from all these incoming 0870 calls to the BBC.  The main expert at Ofcom, Mr Geoff Brighton, has told me that this is going on.

The letter you have had is just a stock propaganda letter the BBC sends all their customers who complain about 0870, although the thing about expecting further guidance from Ofcom in August is very, very interesting and new.  It seems that they know of a date for action that nobody else is yet aware of.  Unless that is an old date from last year with August being the date that Ofcom was meant to publish their NTS consultation document.

You may also be  interested in all the responses to the two Ofcom consultations on NTS/084/7 to be found here.  The response from the Ofcom Consumer Panel is a particularly robust one:-


www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ntsoptions/


and


www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ntsctmr/

lavillegour,

Whilst I would agree the tone of the letter is generally more 'friendly' than many replies on the subject, it still contains a number of errors (some would say falsehoods).

First, the assertion that 0870 numbers, "....are NOT premium rate numbers" can be shown to be false. 

We all know that '09' numbers are Premium Rate but the cost of calling 090000, 090074, 090116, 090125 and a number of other '09' codes is LESS than 8p per minute.  Ergo, 0870 numbers are Premium Rate numbers.

Second, there is the "Calls to our number cost up to 8 pence a minute (8 a.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays) and 5 pence a minute (6 p.m. to 8 a.m. weekdays)" statement.  BT changed their interpretation of 'day' last week and the charges are now up to 8p per minute 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays and 5 pence a minute 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. weekdays.

Finally and most importantly, there is the now familiar 'levels the geographical playing field' twaddle, "It is also thought to be fairer to all of our viewers for a call to cost the same no matter where in the country you are calling from.  With an 0870 number our viewers in Scotland pay exactly the same as those in London."

Since 1/7/04, when BT did away with the differentiation between 'local' and 'national' calls and standardised the cost of calls from anywhere in the UK to UK 01 and 02 numbers at 3p/minute weekdays and 5.5p for up to an hour evenings and weekends, a viewer in Scotland dialling a London 02 number pays exactly the same as a viewer in London (or anywhere else in the UK for that matter) making the same call.

All the use of 0870 numbers does is make sure all callers pay 8p (or 5p) per minute instead of 3p per minute (or 5.5p for up to an hour) - in other words, a Premium Rate!.

Do the BBC come under the FOI act?