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Silent call (Read 53,717 times)
Smasher
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Re: Silent call
Reply #30 - Mar 25th, 2005 at 10:48am
 
OK, so if I wanted to say, Murder someone (not that I ever would Shocked), all I have to do is phone their landline from my mobile and not cleardown, thus preventing them from being able to use their line and call for help??

I think not... Roll Eyes
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Tanllan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #31 - Mar 25th, 2005 at 12:08pm
 
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I think not... Roll Eyes

But actually the case, hence outgoing-only lines, RedCare and so on.
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Smasher
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Re: Silent call
Reply #32 - Mar 25th, 2005 at 12:48pm
 
Shocked Well I've learnt something! Shocked

Shouldn't Ofcom be made aware of this blatant flaw in our telephone system?
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Dave
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Re: Silent call
Reply #33 - May 25th, 2005 at 11:10pm
 
See here. It seems that MKD Holdings Ltd (trading as Kitchens Direct) are still making loads of silent calls. They appear to have been doing it for well over a year now. See this complaint on Ofcom's site.

There is also an interview with one Mike Peacock of Ofcom on the BBC News clip.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #34 - May 26th, 2005 at 12:09am
 
Quote:
There is also an interview with one Mike Peacock of Ofcom on the BBC News clip.

You mean Matt Peacock I believe although I agree that the BBC have misquoted his name a couple of times.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Silent call
Reply #35 - Jun 3rd, 2005 at 2:55am
 
Quote:
You mean Matt Peacock I believe although I agree that the BBC have misquoted his name a couple of times.


You may be interested to know that someone else who appears in that BBC clip has found your site.

Anyone interested in the issue of stopping Silent Calls may wish to look at www.users.waitrose.com/~SilentCalls.

As the only consumer to have pursuaded Ofcom to use its powers under Sections 128 - 131 of the Communications Act 2003, I may be of help to the SayNoTo0870 campaign.

Using these same powers that cover Silent Calls, Ofcom may take action against those who use revenue-sharing "presentation numbers".

(These powers relate to Ofcom's duty to protect citizens, and are quite separate from Ofcom's involvement in the numbers themselves and the charging, which relates to its regulation of the telecomms industry.)

The examples of "persistent misuse of a telecommunications network" given in Ofcom's Statement of Policy include:

"A return caller may suffer annoyance or inconvenience by unwittingly making a return call for which they are charged more than they may reasonably expect".

Has anyone considered making a complaint to Ofcom in relation to any of the more serious cases covered on this site?

I am still busy fighting the Silent Calls battle myself, but would be happy to offer any tips.
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bigjohn
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Re: Silent call
Reply #36 - Jun 3rd, 2005 at 7:00am
 
Dave.
Excellent site keep up the good fight.
If you havent already done so you might like to post an item  in the Telephone Chat Forum on
www.moneysavingexpert.com

They support this site and it is read by oodles of consumers.
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BJ.
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #37 - Jun 3rd, 2005 at 7:44am
 
Quote:
"A return caller may suffer annoyance or inconvenience by unwittingly making a return call for which they are charged more than they may reasonably expect".

Has anyone considered making a complaint to Ofcom in relation to any of the more serious cases covered on this site?

I am still busy fighting the Silent Calls battle myself, but would be happy to offer any tips.


What does one regard as serious I wonder?  And where does one start and finish?

What about continued insistence in BUPA' call centres at supervisor level that this is "local call rate" and that they are saving me money by subsidising the price difference between a local and national rate call.  Or continued insistence by call centre staff for Surrey Police that this is a special local rate and denial that it can be costing me 11p per minute from a BT Phonebox.

Or is it the fact that the National Rail Enquiries 0845 number now suddenly takes ages to get through to while they encourage you to call their automated 0871 number instead where they neglect to state that calls cost 10p per minute.  Or is it staff manning TopUpTvs 0871 customer service who swear blind that its an "ordinary national rate call"

Or is it BT who will only let me use the call diversion facility on my line by using them as the call carrier instead of the 100 or so companies that I can use if I call the number myself when I am at home.  Or what about BT phoen boxes where all the pubicity materials still state that calls cost 15 minutes for 30p for local and national rate calls.

And what does Ofcom do about any of this stuff?  Precisely Nothing?   Just as they will shortly do nothing about preventing 084x and 087x still being charged massively above the cost of national geographic phone calls.  Well they may make these companies have a price announcement on the line but I bet they won't make it illegal for a company's captive customers to have to pay more than their providers standard geographic phone rates to make a call.

Their predecessor OFTEL is the souce of nearly all these problems as if ever there was a regulator that was in the pocket of the industry it was supposed to control then OFTEL was it.  And what about BT phone rental at £168 a year (Option 1 + 2 Select Services) before I pick up the line to make a single call.  By contrast the water company charges me £20 a year before I turn on my tap.

Like you I have managed to be interviewed on a BBC Radio 4 program about this but I am far from convinced that it will do any good as empirical evidence suggests that almost nobody of consequence listens to You & Yours.
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« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2005 at 11:44am by N/A »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Silent call
Reply #38 - Jun 3rd, 2005 at 11:19am
 
Quote:
What does one regard as serious I wonder?  And where does one start and finish?

The powers I refer to begin and end with use of 0870 numbers as CLI - the number shown on caller display, and given on dialling 1471.

The clearest example I can think of is where a company is making calls and hanging up before the call is answered, so as to make money out of people calling back to this number. Someone involved with this site may have a case that fits the example quoted in my previous post and would wish to take it forward.

I am no champion of Ofcom, but if one believes in having public bodies to protect the public interest, this is the only one we have to work with in this area. I am trying to get it to perform its first duty to protect the interests of citizens. This is separate from its second duty, which is to work with the industry to provide a competitive market for the benefit of consumers. (ibid Communications Act 2003 3(1))

Because Ofcom tends to be focused more on the second of these duties, it is struggling, but so am I.

Ofcom is answerable to parliament and some of my present efforts are aimed at making that accountability effective. Anyone concerned about Silent Calls - please write to your MP and get them to join the small group who are already working on this.

Quote:
Like you I have managed to be interviewed on a BBC Radio 4 program about this but I am far from convinced that it will do any good as empirical evidence suggests that almost nobody of consequence listens to You & Yours.

Congratulations on getting to appear on Y&Y. I have contributed to their own web site, drafted scripts for them and continue to brief their reporter, but have not appeared yet.

Media appearances are not going to make much difference directly. They do provide a useful way of making contacts and getting statements "on the record". Organisations who have a public reputation to protect are also very conscious of what may be said or reported.

I hope this helps.

David
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #39 - Jun 3rd, 2005 at 11:57am
 
Why is it that having the first name David seems to make people especially disposed to opposing the use of 084/7x. Grin

So far as Ofcom and 084/7x is concerned the submission from BT asking for new regulations requiring that 0845 and 0870 in future only be billed at geographic call rates must have a powerful influence on Ofcom's though processes.  But on the other hand New Labour has been re-elected and it seems to be New Labour strategy to impose yet further secret stealth taxes by moving almost every major government agency call centre in the land (Passport Agency, DVLA, Inland Revenue etc) onto 084/7x so running costs can be subsdised by the caller.  So are Ofcom going to dare to do anything that might upset New Labour's strategic telecoms plans at a ministerial level.

The BT submission to the Ofcom NTS Options for the Future consultation is a curious affair since it proposes stopping the 0845 and 0870 ripoff whilst allowing the 0844 and 0871 ripoffs to continue unregulated by ICSTIS.  Yet the inevitable consequence of this logical consistency are surely blindingly obvious (namely that virtually all 0845 and 0870 abusers will simply move to 0844 and 0871 thus further increasing caller costs).

Unless Ofcom go for the right solution on this (namely ban all 084/087x revenue sharing and force revenue sharing dial up ISPs to move to another unused number prefix like 04 or 06) I will have no further confidence in any of their actions.

For one moment there I thought from your comments and the timing of your appearance in this forum that you were the former MP Paul Tyler.  But reading your post again I can see that you are not since Paul Tyler has been interviewed on You & Yours.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Silent call
Reply #40 - Jun 6th, 2005 at 11:12pm
 
Quote:
Why is it that having the first name David seems to make people especially disposed to opposing the use of 084/7x.
. . . . .
For one moment there I thought from your comments and the timing of your appearance in this forum that you were the former MP Paul Tyler.  But reading your post again I can see that you are not since Paul Tyler has been interviewed on You & Yours.


I am not sure how strongly to take the insult, if at all. My name is declared on the "Silent Calls" home page and on the BBC caption on the clip referred to, where Matt Peacock is misidentified as "Mike". This can be seen at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/41110000/rm/_41110237_silent_vi.ram

The essential point on what Ofcom are going to do about NTS in general is visibility. I think we agree on this.

Charging users for public services is unquestionably the way the present Thatcherite government is going. Ofcom already refer to me as a customer. I have pointed out that they really should wait until they charge a fee for making a complaint before using this term, but I can see that they are getting ready for this.

I will continue my battle for a public body to do its duty and act in the general public interest, not simply to satisfy the requests of individuals who have a justifiable personal complaint.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #41 - Jun 6th, 2005 at 11:44pm
 
Quote:
I will continue my battle for a public body to do its duty and act in the general public interest, not simply to satisfy the requests of individuals who have a justifiable personal complaint.


David,

Thanks for your helpful response.  No insult was really intended on my part and my comments were intended mainly in jest given our 2 moderators in this forum - Dave and DaveM.

I note the work that you are doing on Silent Calls but I wonder if these are in fact as great a menace as receipt of non silent calls that play a message and tell you that you have won a prize draw with televisons and all expenses paid holidays and to contact the following 0906 number to claim (the cost of the 0906 call is never given even thoug it is usually £1.50 a minute).

Speaking personally I have received a lot more of these recorded announcement calls (always showing International Number Unavailable) than any Silent Calls, especially from Casinos and lotteries in Las Vegas.  Although their numbers have been declining steeply of late as ICSTIS takes more steps to introduce delays in paying those who run these lines (to allow payment to be blocked if there is a flood of complaint  about the particular 0906 line).

I also can't actually remember the last time that I received a silent phone call depsite the fact that my number is printed in the BT phone book although I am of course registered with the TPS.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Silent call
Reply #42 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 1:32am
 
Quote:
No insult was really intended on my part and my comments were intended mainly in jest

I hope you took my response, as intended, in the same spirit.

Quote:
I note the work that you are doing on Silent Calls but I wonder if these are in fact as great a menace as . . .

I got the bug for the Silent Calls thing when I started to get some response from Ofcom (back in December 2003). I thought - "I wonder if I could make a difference here?" and so I have stuck with it. There are many greater ills in the world, I did not choose this one because I believed it to be the greatest.


The use of 0906 numbers is, as you say, an issue for ICSTIS. I have the impression that ICSTIS does actually achieve things. This could be because those who want to continue to make a living out of premium rate services run it.


The recorded messages are an issue for the Office of the Information Commissioner. I have attempted to pursue two complaints about these here. There is nothing that can be done about companies that are totally based overseas and the reluctance to deal properly with a UK company that was prepared to admit to me that it was doing it was breathtaking.

I am preparing the ground for the sorting out the Information Commissioner, once I have finished with Ofcom. Wink

Quote:
I also can't actually remember the last time that I received a silent phone call depsite the fact that my number is printed in the BT phone book although I am of course registered with the TPS.

Thank you for this comment. I have heard this many times before. It helps to deny the claim made by the Direct Marketing Association that most Silent Calls are coming from cowboys and from overseas, rather than from its own "responsible" members, who respect the TPS.

If the TPS is effective in stopping Silent Calls, then it should be fairly easy for Ofcom to be effective in stopping those who are making them from doing so.

I don't want to get away from the focus of this forum. I posted here to make the point about 0870 return numbers being covered by the same powers, and to offer tips to anyone who wanted to follow the path that I have helped to beat down.
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Smasher
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Re: Silent call
Reply #43 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 7:45pm
 
Quote:
OK, so if I wanted to say, Murder someone (not that I ever would Shocked), all I have to do is phone their landline from my mobile and not cleardown, thus preventing them from being able to use their line and call for help??

I think not... Roll Eyes


Quote:
But actually the case, hence outgoing-only lines, RedCare and so on.


I've checked this out and it isn't true. 

I wonder if anyone here is able to give a more proficient opinion on this as the reply above (with all respect to Tanallan) is incorrect.  It is not possible to invade the privacy of someone's home and prevent them from dialling numbers or calling 999 simply because you don't put the phone down when calling them! Roll Eyes

Nobody at BT seems able to explain what I'm on about and consistently treat me like some sort of moron... send their jobs to India - that'll teach them... Angry (whinge whinge)
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Silent call
Reply #44 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 9:32pm
 
If you hang your phone up against the incoming call it should clear down after about 15 seconds or so.

Years ago this was not the case and the incoming caller could keep your line open.

This seems to be the source of the disinformation now being spread.

Of course there is nothing to stop the caller from calling back again straight away but as long as you can manage to call 999 or whatever before they do then you should be ok.
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