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Arrogant companies - Micro Direct (Read 41,292 times)
juby
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #15 - Mar 27th, 2005 at 1:25pm
 
Copy of e-mail sent to Honest John in the Daily Telegraph today: [email]Subject: New Nav

 Hi, HJ,

Whist I would not hesitate to do business with a company reccomended by you, (I have done so in the past), I would not dream of doing business with a company who has the arrogance to invite me ring them on a Premium number!
(0871 is charged at 10 pence a minute ar all times)

What are they thinking about? If it was a geograhical number, it would cost me one penny a minute to ring them.

Regards,  
[/email]
The Comapany New-Nav states that they "are recommended by Honest John"
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« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2005 at 1:26pm by juby »  
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juby
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #16 - Mar 29th, 2005 at 11:17am
 
Success with the last one.

Honest John replied to my e-mail say that he would tell them.

I do not suppose it is over yet, the company has yet to deny it is a premium number, but am in no doubt that they will!

juby
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hoxne
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2005 at 5:31pm
 
Quote:
It should be made to TSO in the area in which the companies Registered Office is.


Generally, a complaint should be made to your own Trading Standards office, i.e. for the area in which you live.  That office can provide advice as to any civil claim you may have against a trader (unlikely in this case unless you have in fact been misled -- which members of this group will not have been as they now know full well how much an 0870 call costs).

A criminal offence (which is what we're talking about here) can be investigated by the TS office in whose area the offence is committed.  This is usually the area where the advert has been read -- so again your local TS office if you read the advert at home.  If you read the advert somewhere else, you could try reporting to the TS office for the area you were in, but some TS offices will only field complaints from their own residents (in which case your own office should then forward to the correct enforcing authority).

The TS authority for the company's head office is known as their 'home authority'.  An enforcing authority will refer complaints about the company to the home authority for advice.  If legal action is being considered, the enforcing authority will contact the home authority first, to find out what advice was previously given and to find out if anyone else is already taking action on the same matter (to avoid duplication).

Sounds complicated, but should clarify -- report to your own TS office.  Note that, in some regions, the call will automatically transfer to Consumer Direct (DTI-led consumer advice service) but that a call with a criminal element will be referred through the the relevant TS office(s) by them too so long as you make it clear that you think there's a criminal element to it.
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juby
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #18 - Mar 29th, 2005 at 10:20pm
 
I am sorry but I seem to have misled you in some way, in my original statement I said quote,
"It should be made to the TSO in the area in which the companies registered office is."
I never mentioned any criminal offence, fraud or crime against the person.
You are confusing this with the courts, county, small claims etc., where it is compulsory to make the claim in your local County Court. That is a claim for a debt owing and has got nothing to do with a report to the Trading Standards Officer about something you consider is against the common good, it does not even have to be against the law.

It makes obvious sense to make the complaint in the area where they are known, as any previous complaints will immediatey show up. I did not say it was compulsory.

juby
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mikeinnc
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ipsos custodes?

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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #19 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 2:52pm
 
Here is the reply to an email I sent to this arrogant company that want me to pay them to enquire about purchasing their goods!

If you do not wish to contact us by telephone you may alternatively contact us by email. We are not able to provide anything other than a non-geographic number due to the way the calls are routed.  If you have any further complaints please address them in writing to:

The Customer Service Manager
Micro Direct Ltd
275a Upper Brook Street
Manchester
M12 0HR

Regards

Stuart Tracey
Customer Services
Micro Direct
Tel: 0870 4422233
Fax: 0161 9477382


I wonder who feeds these morons this garbage they regurgitate? Probably the crooks at BT.....  Angry

But notice that they have a geographic fax number....

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Shiggaddi
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #20 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 7:37pm
 
How about writing to them, with an unstamped envelope!!

That way, they have to pay the cost of the stamp, plus £1 handling to Royal Mail!!
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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dorf
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #21 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 7:46pm
 
The problem is that is not a practical option. If you do that the chances are they will not accept the letter. If they do not agree to pay the additional fee the Post Office will not deliver your letter.

The difficulty at the bottom of all of this is why you need to contact them at all. Due to the fact that they are an Internet-based business, you will normally only need to contact them because of reasons such as:

1) Their inadequate web system has failed to accept your prefectly valid Credit Card.

2) They have failed to deliver what you ordered and have paid for.

3) The products they have delivered to you or some of them are faulty.

4) They have debited one or more of your Credit Cards more than once for the goods which you ordered, mainly due to the inadequacies of their web site and the way in which it handles Credit Cards. (Credit card companies have actually telephoned me and asked me why MD have failed to follow their specified procedures!)

I have experienced all of these situations. This is what is so unacceptable about this complete NGN scam. These companies like MD want to charge YOU to sort out the mistakes which THEY have made! If they had not demonstrated their incompetence by their erroneous actions you would not be needing to telephone them at all!
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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2005 at 7:52pm by dorf »  

Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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Dave
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Trading Standards acknowledgement re: Micro Direct
Reply #22 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 8:46pm
 
I have received an acknowledgement from Manchester Trading Standards, saying that they are looking into this. I'm not in Manchester, so it seems that the procedure of reporting to a company's local TS is right (at least for the NGN complaint).
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Dave
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Reply from Trading Standards - Micro Direct
Reply #23 - Apr 21st, 2005 at 2:19pm
 
I emailed Manchester Trading Standards a few weeks ago. This is what I sent them:
Quote:
I am writing to you regarding Micro Direct Ltd's description of its 0870 telephone numbers.

If you look at the contact page (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Contact.aspx) click "Customer Service" (bottom right) the email address pops up, click "Customer Service" below the email address and the telephone number is revealed.

Below the number is the statement "The above number is charged at National rates NOT at Premium." This is clearly misleading, as it implies that calls to 0870 cost the same as a geographical number, which they do not on the vast majority of calling packages including BT Together.

On this subject, I would like to draw your attention to Leicester City Council's response (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/213630/responses/leicester_cc.pdf) to Ofcom's consultation "0845 and 0870 numbers: Review of retail price and numbering arrangements" published 26/09/03, it states in paragraph 1.3:
"...we reached the conclusion that any price indication given to consumers, which suggested that an 0845 call would be priced in line with a local call or that an 0870 call would be priced in line with a national call, was misleading within the meaning of Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987. Any person giving such price indications, or giving advice that such price indications may be used, is in our view guilty of a criminal offence under that legislation. Such persons could include NTS Service Providers, Terminating Operators and OFTEL themselves."


And this is the reply I received.
Quote:
RE: Micro Direct Website

I am writing regarding your complaint about the description of 0870 telephone numbers on the Micro Direct website.
I have looked at the facts and have been in touch with Leicester City Council Trading Standards to query their response to the consultation, which you referred to in your complaint.
Leicester Trading Standards have said that they no longer agree with the opinion as it was given some time ago and circumstances have changed since then.
There are a number of telephone service providers competing with British Telecom, all with varying national and local rates and in view of the wide variation, we believe it would be difficult to allege a Misleading Price indication under The Consumer Protection 1987.
However, we will continue to collect information relating to the differing local and national rates and will contact you in the future to report on our findings if we feel it necessary.
Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention. If you require any further assistance, please contact me on the above telephone number.

Very disappointed. I can't work out whether they have been sucked in by the confusion themselves and think that 0870 is the same as a national call.
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Shiggaddi
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #24 - Apr 21st, 2005 at 7:35pm
 
There are a number of telephone service providers competing with British Telecom, all with varying national and local rates and in view of the wide variation, we believe it would be difficult to allege a Misleading Price indication under The Consumer Protection 1987.


All that has changed since 2003, is that BT has forced people onto BT together option 1, therefore nobody pays the same rate for 0870 as they do on geographic numbers.

So, this should make the case stronger, not weaker as rival telecoms companies still charge more for 0870 than geographic calls, and in many cases even more than BT, whereas their geographic calls vary between free, and a few pence per minute during the day.
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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Dave
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #25 - Apr 21st, 2005 at 7:44pm
 
Quote:
So, this should make the case stronger, not weaker as rival telecoms companies still charge more for 0870 than geographic calls, and in many cases even more than BT, whereas their geographic calls vary between free, and a few pence per minute during the day.

That's how I see it aswell.

In addition, what local and national rates are they referring to? Those that apply to geographical numbers and/or those that apply to 0845 and 0870?

Whilst it's impossible to show pricing information by the number, the 'local' and 'national' titles are clearly misleading, and something that TS should have picked up on.
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Tanllan
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #26 - Apr 21st, 2005 at 11:15pm
 
Quote:
Whilst it's impossible to show pricing information by the number....

Time for free front-end announcements?
Go for it Ofcom  Smiley
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juby
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #27 - Apr 21st, 2005 at 11:16pm
 
Bad news about Leicester.

Should we accept it as fact, or press on with quoting it and let them deny it first hand?

The comment by Manchester is hearsay.

And what circumstances have changed since the piece was written?

When was it written? I know it refers to "in 2001/2" but has anybody any knowledge of the date?

Sept 03, but the question above still stands.

juby
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« Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2005 at 11:22pm by juby »  
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bbb_uk
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #28 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:46pm
 
I wrote to Manchester T/S over this pointing out ASA/CAP guidelines, etc and this was their reply:-

Quote:
This has been raised before, and I think is far from unique to Micro Direct. The officer who raised it took the matter to LACORS to get their opinion on this, but we have not received this yet. The Advertising Standards Authority advice is clear that "national rate" should not be used for 0870 numbers, but this is not the same as a court finding this to be misleading price indication.

You are probably aware that Ofcom are currently consulting on changes to 087 and 084 numbers and propose to return 0870 to the same as national rate calls and allow 0871 calls to share revenue and be higher, but require a short message at the start of the call stating the charge to be made.

I will write to the company to inform them of the ASA opinion and proposed Ofcom changes.
Therefore it is obvious that for some unknown reason a 0870 call costing 8ppm is the same as a geographical national call costing 3ppm and isn't really misleading at all!
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cyclone
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Re: Arrogant companies - Micro Direct
Reply #29 - Oct 18th, 2005 at 2:04pm
 
Quote:
The difficulty at the bottom of all of this is why you need to contact them at all. Due to the fact that they are an Internet-based business, you will normally only need to contact them because of reasons such as:

1) Their inadequate web system has failed to accept your prefectly valid Credit Card.

2) They have failed to deliver what you ordered and have paid for.

3) The products they have delivered to you or some of them are faulty.

4) They have debited one or more of your Credit Cards more than once for the goods which you ordered, mainly due to the inadequacies of their web site and the way in which it handles Credit Cards. (Credit card companies have actually telephoned me and asked me why MD have failed to follow their specified procedures!)

I have experienced all of these situations. This is what is so unacceptable about this complete NGN scam. These companies like MD want to charge YOU to sort out the mistakes which THEY have made! If they had not demonstrated their incompetence by their erroneous actions you would not be needing to telephone them at all!


Dorf, I am about to take MD to small claims court to recover £60 fees which my bank charged me after MD pulled funds 3 times for 1 item, which exceeded my overdraft, because of their site said that my payment failed and to try again.

Could I use your post as evidence to show that this happens to others as MD are trying to blame me.

Thanks
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