Yes ALWAYS. All 'virtual' numbers need somewhere to deliver the call to whether a physical wireline or mobile, or indeed VoIP terminal.  Routing tables take the 'real' number and deliver the call to that, this may be a PABX hunt group if a call centre, but it is fair to say there is NO possibility of an 0870 number being the true number of a telephone circuit.

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From what I've read on here (I think jrawle's the one to answer this), 0870s can connect straight to VoIP lines without a geographical number.

Hi,

This is copied from an e-mail to me from Offcom.........


So the answer is YES.

The trouble is most employees do not know this, nor what the Geographic number is.

The thing is to tell them, and harass them, and ask to speak to the Manager/Telecoms-Chief and keep on at them. If a few people do this they'll consider offering the Geog alternative as routine.

ALSO,
E-mail companies with a standard letter such as these below

eg (brief)
Hello,

I would like to order(etc) from you, but we do not use nor support 0870 (non-geographic overlay numbers)
Please can you give me the your underlying (geographically coded) normal number.

Thank you

Or, where you think education is necessary.........

Dear Sir/Madam

We would like to order/register/join/do-business-with your company/organisation but we do not use/support 0845/0870 (Non-geographic) telephone numbers.

These numbers are a high-cost, anti-competition device, which has locked out other call-carriers.
With carriers such as Onetel, Telco, Vartec, 18866 or Asda I can call normal, geographically-coded (fixed-dial) numbers for a small fraction of the cost of your non-geographic numbers!!

We resent this, especially as one is invariably expected to queue on these high BT rates.
Furthermore 0870’s are “Revenue-sharing” numbers. We cannot support businesses that seek to derive silent income by keeping their customers waiting on the phone. Offcom and Which have expressed concerns about this.

Offcom are currently investigating this scam.
They have assured me, on several occasions that every single non-geographic number has a normal, “fixed-dial”, geographic alternative.
Companies wishing to derive income from this scam may choose not to reveal their normal number at the moment, but of course we can have no relation with such businesses.

All our Bank/Building societies have given us these alternative numbers, can you do the same please?

N.B.  This situation is even more extreme now that we (like thousands of others) have opted for an “all-in” monthly deal with (carrier) (£13.99/month) for unlimited normal UK calls.
This means that a call to any normal code is zero(extra)! But 0870’s are 9p/min. and 0845’s 4p/min.!!!!!!

I can dial Australia or USA for 1p/min, and most of Europe at 2/min. (with 18866), so these rates are outrageous!!!!!!!!


Please do NOT fob me off. Please pass this to a higher authority if you feel unauthorised or unable to comply. (Giving the geographic number)

Yours truly

Thanks Dorf,

Sorry but I don't know what the initials GN  stands for?

But if it means that BT "hide" the underlying numbers even from their host-clients, it does not mean they don't exist. So Offcom could still be correct.

In-all-events the companies using 0870 numbers could demand to know these numbers (presumably) if their customers demand them. So consumer pressure is still the necessary action.
If enough people ask, the ordinary numbers will be rooted out and disclosed. Don't you think?

Thanks

Len

Yes Shiggaddi GN = Geographic Number.

Eljay, the point is that where there are still any GNs underlying the translation (routing) from a NGN, if BT inhibit incoming calls to those GNs directly within the exchange it would not help even if you could ascertain what the GNs were? I believe in any case that there are facilities within digital exchanges which can be set up to enable access directly to NGNs without there being any underlying GN at all; clearly at present there is a physical line or there are lines delivering to the particular Geographic termination(s), but this type of configuration means that no outgoing calls are possible on these lines and the receiving client is not aware of any normal GN having been allocated to them for this carriage; (indeed no particular GN designation may have been allocated to these lines at all). In such circumstances such a subscriber will make all of their outgoing calls on other normal GNs, and for other normal business purposes will receive other calls on those GNs.

In this configuration the incoming calls on the NGN lines are delivered only to collect the Premiums from their customers and to ensure that there is no other translated number which the subscriber's customers may call to avoid these Premiums. These are the only lines then entering their call centre for example.

With the average level of comprehension about these things which exists within Ofcom, it is even possible that they are not aware of the full extent of circumvention which is possible and now being practised. It is all a bit like the situation between British POWs and the German officers in concentration camps like Colditz during the last World War. Half the time the Germans did not know what was going on!

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Again you are writing without knowledge of fact. If you go back to 1986 when NGN was 1st introduced to the UK the use of private circuits was the only way you could have 0800 or 0345, as it was in those days (Point of fact these circuits used AC15E signalling, I'm sure if you Google you can get more information on it). So it's not some devious plot to rob / or mis-inform customers today or to mis-lead OFCOM, it's simply another choice being practiced by business as being cost effective.

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Freedom of choice, why bother with a PC then?, use ISDN30 or DASS 2 and have a GN, but the first option will be more cost effective as there is typically less network routing.

Also using GNs limits the amount of available network functionality which would then have to be put in to the call centre environment thus increasing overheads which would have to be funded by the customer. They'll get you one way or another.