This thread is being continued here from the post in the Geographical Requests board.

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I don't think you could get away with saying that 0870 numbers are premium (regardless to what BT say) as they'll go by what OfCOM say.

What they mention about band descriptions of 'national rate' and 'local rate' etc then point them paragraph 3 of that webpage you provided a link to.  Specifically:- Quote:

And also, this OfCOM site where you can highlight the following:-
Quote:
Specifically the third point above.

Also, have a look at the first post (and specifically the two links) here.  The first link is proof that the ASA found a company guilty of advertising 0870 as 'national' rate and the other is ASA's little piece about 0845/0870 descriptions and specifically that not just advertising them as 'national' rate is misleading but also they can't be silent on call costs.  In other words, companies will have to specifically mention that calls to 0870 will cost upto 8ppm..., etc..

I do believe you can get them on the 'national' misleading scam but as for calling them premium rate they'll just go by what OfCOM rules.

You could also point out that calls to geographical national rate (calling from say Scotland to London) will only cost 3ppm daytime and 5.5p for an hour of an evening and weekend from a BT landline and cheaper on other networks.

Good luck.

Quote:

I don't know if that should be mentioned as then they'll have more of an argument (not much more though) as to why they can still advertise it as national rate.  The reason being is they can then say that 0870 is the same cost as geographical national rate calls even if its only on BT non-discounted price plan.

If you don't mention about the fact the some people are still on the non-discount price plan like Low User Scheme etc, I believe you stand more of a chance of getting them to change their minds or at least take note.

If you mention that majority of BT customers are on BTs Together Option 1 and then point them to this link and quote from it:-
Quote:

It clearly says that local and national are the same price and exactly how much they cost.

Not telling them some customers may still be on Light User scheme, etc where national geographical calls are still around 7ppm is not technically telling porkies as such - your just omiting it because majority of customers are on BT together option 1 or higher.  That is why above I was careful to say 'majority' as in:-
Quote:


PS:  I've worked in enough firms to learn how they twist & turn things to their advantage by omiting certain things (so long as its not obvious) because then it's not classed as telling lies.

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You are right but thats assuming they know that some people are still on the old (little) used plans where such national geographical calls are around 8ppm.  I believe it would be giving them more ammunition to stay with 0870 calls if they knew that some customers still paying around 8ppm for national geographical calls.

To be honest, I don't think they (or most other companies for that matter) will do much apart from change their description to "calls cost upto 8ppm" instead of "national rate".  They would lose out on all that revenue you then!

This may sound like i'm being negative but I like to think of it as being realistic.

The only way all this is going to stop and that is for OfCOM to get up of their a**** and do something like ban keeping people on hold, etc.  OfCOM will never ban the use of 0845/0870 as our own government couldn't profit from us calling them.

The above is just my opinion but you'll be glad to hear i've calmed down now.  lol  .

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I agree but unfortunately OfCOM don't class them as such therefore 0870 are here to stay.  I believe the use of 0870 (specifically 0870 more than 0845) would decline if OfCOM classed them as premium rate numbers and they weren't allowed to keep us on hold in a queue.

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I like that!

bill, I emailed OFCOM with that point.  Here is their reply:

[...]


Thank you for submitting your concerns and comments via the Ofcom Internet site about the use that is made of 0870 numbers in the UK.

I have no disagreement over the dictionary definitions of what the word ‘Premium’ means.  However, I would correct your misconception about 0870.  0870 numbers may be charged at a premium according to your number 2 dictionary definition but they are not Premium Rate numbers. Premium Rate numbers start with 09.

What are Premium Rate Services (PRS)?
PRS offer some form of content, product or service via fixed and mobile telecoms lines. These services vary in cost, but are typically charged between 10 pence per minute (or call) up to £1.50 per minute (or call) from the BT network. Services typically include TV vote lines, competitions, adult services, chat lines, mobile phone ringtone downloads and interactive TV games.  They are in keeping with your dictionary definition 3.

For further information about Premium Rate numbers please go to the ICSTIS web site: www.icstis.org.uk. ICSTIS is the regulatory body for the use and content of Premium Rate numbers.

You may also like to view the FAQs on the following Ofcom web site link about Premium Rate numbers: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/mofaq/telecoms/premium_services/?a=87101

Non geographic 0845 and 0870 numbers are known as Number Translation Services (NTS), i.e. the non-geographic number sits on top of a geographic number. The 0845/0870 range is intended for ‘value-added’ services, where the caller gains value beyond the conveyance of the call. Value-added services include information and contact services. 

087* is a Higher rate and has its own specific price identity. Calls are priced at up to 10p per minute on the BT network.

The NTS regime was created to encourage development of reasonably priced, nationwide single contact numbers for businesses and organisations to provide information and contact services to consumers.  Without the regulatory arrangements that support 0870 calls, many of today’s common and popular services that benefit consumers seeking information might not have evolved.

It will continue to remain the commercial decision of service providers as to what type of number they wish to use to offer their services.

Ofcom is aware of growing consumer dissatisfaction with the increasing use of 0870 numbers for information and access services and of consumer concern in relation to the different charging rates for calls to non-geographic (084/087) numbers.  Over the last 12 months, Ofcom has released a number of documents covering our work in this area. The last of these documents was a consultation entitled ‘Options for the Future’. If you would like to view this document please access our website through the following link:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/mofaq/telecoms/0870faq/?a=87101
Ofcom has proposed measures which aim to provide certainty for businesses offering these services and clarity for consumers calling 0870 and 0845 numbers. 

Businesses like call centres, that use 0870 numbers, may be able to obtain some revenues for receiving inbound calls from the telephone companies providing their service. That is a commercial agreement reached between the parties concerned.

Ofcom recognises that consumers have become concerned that this revenue sharing may provide an incentive for some companies to prolong calls.  This is just one of the aspects we are looking at and Ofcom is still reviewing all responses to the consultation exercise. The intention is to publish our analysis some time during this summer.

Yours sincerely


Ofcom Contact Centre


[...]

It looks like OfCOM are sweeping this under the carpet as well!