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The abuses increase (Read 30,021 times)
dorf
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I hate Qs on Premium NGNs

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The abuses increase
Jun 20th, 2005 at 5:31pm
 
Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, but today I have just come across what I believe is the worst abuse yet of the supposed National Numbering Plan. Whatever was the point of having one at all, when such contraventions were to be allowed? I now begin to wonder whether the whole NNP thing was an intentional strategy to fool consumers into a sense of false security so that they could be ripped off afterwards, like lambs to the slaughter?

We have already seen the proliferating abuse of non-09 NGNs being used as Premium numbers WITH Queuing (when queuing was supposed to be prohibited with all Premium numbers). Now we have access codes being used as Premium numbers! This is quite unbelievable. The one I have just come across is clearly also deliberately chosen to ghost on another much used code, rather like ghost urls which are designed to catch any who mispell a well-used commercial url. This one is a so-called DQ number, 118866. It is clearly deliberately designed to catch anyone making an error in dialing the code 18866. It is apparently a premium rate DQ service run by Ring True Solutions. The rate is a £1.50 connection charge and thereafter calls cost 30p per minute. So if you dial it in error and then clear down immediately when you get an answer, it will still cost you £1.50p + the first 30 p. 

This is what happens when you have a corrupt regulator. These guys are cocking a snook at the whole regulatory system. I wonder how many other abuses like this there now are. Does anyone know of any others?

We really ought to complain in force about this, since this is clearly the beginning of even worse abuses.
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« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2005 at 5:34pm by dorf »  

Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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bigjohn
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #1 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 5:55pm
 
Dorf.There is a thread running on this subject on the phone forum. on the
   www.moneysavingexpert.com      site
entitled(Take Care When Dialling 18866 Manually)started on the 18/6/2005 by Pricefighter.

Perhaps someone could link it ,i am having no luck.
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« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2005 at 5:56pm by bigjohn »  

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bbb_uk
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #2 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 7:11pm
 
Quote:
....Perhaps someone could link it ,i am having no luck.
As requested, click here.

As I posted on the MSE site, it is £1.50 connection charge so I believe it is obvious they are only in it to con those people who accidently dial 118866 as at £1.50 connection charge they must be the most expensive.

I believe OfCOM should be informed of this misuse.  I may give them a ring tomorrow to see if anything legally can be done.
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bigjohn
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #3 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 7:37pm
 
Thanks BBB_uk.

In America they call it FAT FINGER DIALLING.Where companies register close versions of someone elses number,in the hope of picking up misdials.

See the FCC Site

www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/carelessdialing.html
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005 at 5:25am by bigjohn »  

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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #4 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 8:54am
 
Just rung OfCOM over this and mentioned just how much they've increased their prices which makes them very uncompetitive and how I think they've done it on purpose because people are misdialling Call18866.

His reply is that we have to be more careful but nothing can be done because its just as if we misdialled a geographical number.  I then mentioned that there was a major difference of misdialling a geographical that would cost 5p max to one that costs £1.50 minimum!

He said there was no difference except just be cautious when dialling Call18866!

Quote:
...In America they call it FAT FINGER DIALLING.Where companies register close versions of someone elses number,in the hope of picking up misdials....
BigJohn, I do believe that the DQ service 118866 was genuine as at first they only charged the average rate for DQ calls.  It looks they've been taken over by a company called RingTrue Solutions and since then increased their DQ calls to £1.50 connection charge.
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005 at 8:59am by bbb_uk »  
 
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bigjohn
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #5 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 9:02am
 
Yes it was genuine at first.But these people appear to have taken it over, and upped the price solely to benefit from 18866 misdials.Even though the number was not originally allocated for this service,i suggest the term Fat finger Dialling/Number Squatting is appropriate.

Useless Ofcom,s initial response does not surprise me.I would imagine if this had happened in America  there regulator would have jumped upon it.

Perhaps Martin MSE could bring it to the attention of people in his newsletter.I have spoken to call.18866.co.uk  and asked them to add a warning to there site,they did not appear to be aware of this problem and asked me to e-mail them so they could do something about it.
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005 at 9:28am by bigjohn »  

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bbb_uk
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 10:14am
 
Quote:
...Perhaps Martin MSE could bring it to the attention of people in his newsletter.I have spoken to call.18866.co.uk  and asked them to add a warning to there site,they did not appear to be aware of this problem and asked me to e-mail them so they could do something about it...
Good idea as thats probably best that can be done because OfCOM can't/wont do anything.
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bill
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #7 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 10:35am
 
Quote:
I have spoken to call.18866.co.uk and asked them to add a warning to there site,they did not appear to be aware of this problem and asked me to e-mail them so they could do something about it.
I e-mailed them over the weekend to advise them of the problem and suggesting they might consider applying for an additional prefix (additional rather than replacement because of the number of people with diallers programmed).
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Smasher
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #8 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 2:19pm
 
Quote:
I have spoken to call.18866.co.uk  and asked them to add a warning to there site,they did not appear to be aware of this problem and asked me to e-mail them so they could do something about it.


You called them?  Is there a contact number for them then? ???
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dorf
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #9 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 6:23pm
 
The point most people seem to be missing about this disgusting abuse is that 118866 is supposed to be an access code, allocated to a specific provider (just as 18866 is). With such codes it is supposed to be the provider that bills you direct for service. It is not supposed to be possible for any consumer who is not a registered customer of the access code provider to incur a charge or in fact to be connected to their service. Try dialing 18866 if you are not a registered customer on the particular number you are dialing from, for example.

However, it seems that these crooked providers have found a way of circumventing the system, so that they can charge your main provider (BT or CPS). This is what is the appalling abuse of this. It is an outrageous contravention of the fundemental system protocol for it to be possible to use a provider access code in this way. This is why this code which is supposed to an access code appears to be being used instead as a premium number! Quite outrageous!!

If Ofcom can sit by and watch these types of further abuses taking place without action to stamp them out, then the sky will be the limit for these types of crooks.
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005 at 6:24pm by dorf »  

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bbb_uk
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #10 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 6:42pm
 
Quote:
The point most people seem to be missing about this disgusting abuse is that 118866 is supposed to be an access code, allocated to a specific provider (just as 18866 is). With such codes it is supposed to be the provider that bills you direct for service. It is not supposed to be possible for any consumer who is not a registered customer of the access code provider to incur a charge or in fact to be connected to their service. Try dialing 18866 if you are not a registered customer on the particular number you are dialing from, for example....
This is not true of a DQ service.  You can dial any DQ service (from a BT line anyhow) and you can use them without registering.  The likes of Call18866/1899 are call providers/carriers that we use to 'carry' our calls over their network and therefore benefit from cheaper calls. It is these (Call18866/1899) call providers that ask you to register.

DQ 118866 was a legit company charging an average price for DQ enquries and I believe it wasn't intentional that they had similar numbers but from my research it appears that when it was taken over by RingTrue Solutions they increased the DQ charge to £1.50 connection charge from the average charge (generally around 50p connection charge).  That to me, indicates, they are not trying to provide a DQ service to us as they are nowhere near competitive at that price, but instead have realised people must have been dialling them instead of Call18866 and therefore decided to take advantage of our mistake.
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #11 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 7:23pm
 
Quote:
This is not true of a DQ service.  You can dial any DQ service (from a BT line anyhow) and you can use them without registering.  The likes of Call18866/1899 are call providers/carriers that we use to 'carry' our calls over their network and therefore benefit from cheaper calls. It is these (Call18866/1899) call providers that ask you to register.

DQ 118866 was a legit company charging an average price for DQ enquries and I believe it wasn't intentional that they had similar numbers but from my research it appears that when it was taken over by RingTrue Solutions they increased the DQ charge to £1.50 connection charge from the average charge (generally around 50p connection charge).  That to me, indicates, they are not trying to provide a DQ service to us as they are nowhere near competitive at that price, but instead have realised people must have been dialling them instead of Call18866 and therefore decided to take advantage of our mistake.
What an appalling abuse of the numbering system - taking advantage of those looking for discounted calls. This has to be the most obvious scam relating to telephone numbering ever yet Ofcom, according to bbb, does not appear to give a stuff. At least the regulator is consistent in this respect. Complaining to ICSTIS would also be pointless as that is yet another ineffectual and incompetent regulator. I always laugh when it imposes fines as it very rarely collects them and the scammers simply set up in another country using a different name. As I've said before, the UK numbering system is a target for scam merchants from Tuvalu to Sao Tome and the regulators are powerless to act.
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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dorf
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #12 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 7:25pm
 
I am sorry bbb_uk, but I feel you are confusing the issue. My point is that "DQ" services or any other services of this type should not be accessible via a code which can result in a charge via your existing main provider. This is a further contravention of the NNP and as such adds to all of the scams and deception which Ofcom continue to allow the proliferation of.

Any service of this type where a charge of any kind may be made on this basis should be on an 09 number according to the NNP.
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Smasher
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #13 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 9:08pm
 
Quote:
I am sorry bbb_uk, but I feel you are confusing the issue. My point is that "DQ" services or any other services of this type should not be accessible via a code which can result in a charge via your existing main provider. This is a further contravention of the NNP and as such adds to all of the scams and deception which Ofcom continue to allow the proliferation of.

Any service of this type where a charge of any kind may be made on this basis should be on an 09 number according to the NNP.


I see where you're coming from dorf but this is neer ever going to happen.  It's a shame the eejits at OFCOM didn't think about the 4-5 digit access codes and 6 digit DQ codes being confused.  Or they did but some bigshot lined his pockets. Angry
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Dave
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Re: The abuses increase
Reply #14 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 10:17pm
 
I cannot understand why we have different length codes. Even the access codes 18866 and 1899 are different lengths!!! Has all this happened since privatisation? Is this the need to have more than 100 combinations?

It seems to me that it's a typical Ofcom bodge!

Not only that, the phone providers don't provide an option to bar calls to 118 DQ services. I read into this that the industry is now driven by its greed for profit, which has nothing to do with providing a telecommunications service. These DQ services are a complete rip-off, when you consider you can look up this sort of information online for free.
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