alternative number please?

So much information to go on! 

Could you possibly be talking about this surgery? 

Dr FRY & partners
42 High Street, Chislehurst, Kent, BR7 5AQ
Tel: 020 8467 5551

Can I ask what the number was that you had?  Presumably an 0870 or 0845 or 0844? 

If you get through on the number I have supplied, can you please add the details to the unverified listings, using the Surgery Name as well as address.

Thanks

The 020 8467 5551 and 020 8467 8467 5669 numbers now give a BT-generated message asking you to redial on 0844 477 8989.

What a coincidence you should be asking about this surgery. I first complained to Chislehurst Medical Practice on 4th June 2005 about the 0844 number, but did not get much of an explanation. Therefore on 9th June, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, I requested from Chislehurst Medical Practice their geographic number and how much of the 0844 premium they receive from NEG. Chislehurst Medical Practice replied on 22nd June 2005 saying that the practice did not hold this information. On 26th June 2005, I explained to them how they could obtain the information and I requested an internal review under the FOI. I threatened to lodge a complaint with the Information Commissioner's office if they did not comply. I await their reponse and shall publish the geographic number here, as soon as I know it.

Nudger, please contact me via the e-mail address on my web site. As you're obviously another local resident, we should discuss this further.

I have had another reply from Chislehurst Medical Practice. All my comments and questions are in bold. Their responses are in normal font.

I asked these first two questions not under the FOI, as they were requests for justification, not for specific information.

2. I omitted to mention that 0844 numbers cannot normally be dialled from other European Union countries or from any other country.  This affects those on holiday and business trips who need to contact the practice to make an appointment in advance for when they return to the UK.  It also prevents doctors outside the UK from contacting the practice, for example when a UK patient is unexpectedly receiving treatment abroad.  In light of this, please justify your sole use of an 0844 number with no alternative from non-BT networks.

In response to point (2) our telephone number for dialling the practice from abroad is 0870 4299783.

3. Do you agree that when patients call your 0844 number, patients are funding the cost of your new telephone system?

In response to point (3), we do not agree with your statement.  Of course this revenue contributes towards some of the costs of the system, but the main cost is borne by the practice.  Our decision to replace and the choice of system was made in the interests of our patients and improving our service to them.  We have received positive feedback from patients that the service is both user friendly and provides much improved access to the surgery.

I asked the following questions as a request for an internal review under the FOI:

4. As I have mentioned before, all non-geographic numbers (e.g. 0844) route to an underlying geographic number (e.g. 020).  Therefore in order to receive calls via NEG's 0844 number, Chislehurst Medical Practice needs to rent normal telephone lines from a physical line provider such as BT.  These physical lines installed in your building will have at least one geographic telephone number starting 020.  It is this telephone number that I have requested from you under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.  Because you rent these physical telephone lines, you know their telephone number(s).  The number(s) appear on the practice’s telephone bill and you have to supply the number(s) to NEG in order for them to set up the routing of the 0844 number to the 020 number(s).  Failing that, using the practice’s main line, you could try dialling 17070 free of charge to hear the line’s number or alternatively dial 1470 followed by your mobile number and see what number appears on your mobile’s display.  I do not accept that the information is not held by the practice, as it is available to you by a number of means.

With respect to point (4) Chislehurst Medical Practice does not rent the line from BT, it is owned by NEG.  NEG have not indicated to us the 020 router number which you have requested, therefore we do not hold this information.

6. I can well understand if you do not know how much of the 0844 premium that NEG receives, but my question clearly related both to you and to your service provider (NEG).  Please therefore state how much per minute Chislehurst Medical Practice receives from NEG as a share of the 0844 premium.  If the figure is zero, then please state this.  I do not accept that the information is not held by the practice, as you must know how much revenue you receive.

With respect to point (6) we do not hold a written contract stating the rate of call sharing.  However having contacted NEG we are told it will be 2p per minute.

Chislehurst Medical Practice have offered to have a meeting with me to resolve this.

Please be aware that Chislehurst Medical Practice have discovered this thread and they are far from thrilled about me posting their FOI responses here. This thread intermittently appears on Google, so I am guessing other patients discovered it and raised the issue with the practice. For the benefit of those who arrived at this page from a search engine:

After I recently drew the attention of Chislehurst Medical Practice to their contact details listed at http://www.nhs.uk/england/doctors/Summary.aspx?orgcode=G84010&prmid=BR7+5AQ^1, they have quickly updated this page and additionally introduced an 0844 fax number (although they have listed their 0844 phone and fax numbers the wrong way round). The existing 020 8468 7658 is still answered by a fax machine, and I am guessing that the new 0844 8840134 fax number either routes to 020 8468 7658 or it is possibly a separate fax-to-email service. I doubt they will disconnect their 020 fax number, because when sending a fax, it cannot be guaranteed that the sender would hear a network message announcing the new number, and such a disconnection would cause confusion and disruption.

Nice to have you on board Thog and thanks for the link.

Please have a read of at least a couple of (long) threads to see what members here see as the problems which need to be addressed.

First, there's THIS THREAD about GPs' use of 0870/0844 numbers.

Second, there's THIS THREAD about 49p/minute Patentline (and similar) telephony etc..

If you get the chance when advising the NHS, tell them about THE REAL WORLD where people have to budget their own money and not the government world where taxpayers' money (not 'government' money as it's frequently called in/on the media) is spent without thought for the consequences.