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London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number (Read 352,958 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #90 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 10:01am
 
Quote:
Other sites Eg London Ambulance.London Govt still continue to promote the 0870 number even now!!!


The Met website now only lists the 020 number for overseas callers and since most people don't understand the phone system and phone call costs the way we do they will still end up calling 0870 at up to £24 an hour from Pay as You Go Mobile Phone compared to about £3.75 from the same pay as you go mobile per hour to the 020 number.

It seems clear that whatever Ms Beaton and/or the rest of her Met colleagues have attempted to circulate to reveal the other 020 number to call has not been correctly worded and has only listed it for overseas calls.

It seems to me that the Met and/or Pito still live in fear and trembling of being sued by Cable & Wireless for loss of call revenue.
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 10:01am by N/A »  
 
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juby
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #91 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 11:25am
 
Mr Colin Shepherd of Farnham has scored much more he knows.

His is the first letter ever to be published by the Daily Telegraph decrying 0870.

The editor or his minions will be for the high jump or letting that one through.

Well done Sir!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #92 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:29pm
 
Quote:
Mr Colin Shepherd of Farnham has scored much more he knows.

His is the first letter ever to be published by the Daily Telegraph decrying 0870.

The editor or his minions will be for the high jump or letting that one through.


Do you think Mr Colin Shepherd may even be a member of this forum under another name? Wink

His letter seemed unusually perceptive for a mere member of the general public.

On the other I fear that I personally know far, far too much on this topic to ever have ever been able to write a letter as succinct and yet as on target as Mr Shepherd's missive (or should that be missile).

Sadly The Times have not been back in touch to say that they intend to publish my own rather longer letter on this issue.

Presumably if the Daily Telegraph have in fact received over 100 angry letters on this topic they may have been forced to decide that it was time to let just one rather brief one through the net?
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omy
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #93 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:11pm
 
The Times has a letter today from a Prof. Hanka, which decries the use of 0870 and ends with

"..surely a public body has not chosen to profit in this despicable way from the misfortune of others".


More power to your elbow, Sir!!
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NFH
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #94 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:14pm
 
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Its a pity though that their correspondent Mr Derbyshire did not manage to convey this impression to us in the many more words in his article on the subject in today's DT.

I thought David Derbyshire's article was very informative and accurate. It didn't cover every issue (e.g. calling from outside the UK), but it covered issues more relevant to readers of the Telegraph, i.e. those living in the UK, such as the issues of high cost and revenue.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #95 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:32pm
 
Quote:
I thought David Derbyshire's article was very informative and accurate. It didn't cover every issue (e.g. calling from outside the UK), but it covered issues more relevant to readers of the Telegraph, i.e. those living in the UK, such as the issues of high cost and revenue.


It broke absolutely zero new ground and was not nearly informed enough given how long Mr Derbyshire had to write it.

I gave him figures on the percentage of calls carried on NGNs each year and their total value of over £1 billion to BT and he did not use it.

He wrote a Janet & John type article that was not as informed as I would expect in the Daily Telegraph and would have been more appropriate in the pages of the Daily Express or Daily Mail.

But perhaps you are a friend of his? Wink
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NFH
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #96 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 8:50pm
 
Quote:
It broke absolutely zero new ground and was not nearly informed enough given how long Mr Derbyshire had to write it.

He wrote a Janet & John type article that was not as informed as I would expect in the Daily Telegraph and would have been more appropriate in the pages of the Daily Express or Daily Mail.

But perhaps you are a friend of his? Wink

No, I don't know him at all.

You have to remember who the target audience is. Most people on this site are very interested in figures. The average reader of a newspaper, even a true broadsheet, does not want to wade through an article full of figures. I thought the article gave a true and convincing introduction to the 0870 scam, even though it was not solely about the 0870 scam.
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IainMacCallum
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #97 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 11:01pm
 
This is not the first time an 0870 number has been used as an Emergency Contact Number. I response to the January 2005 Ofcom consultation I wrote

---------------

Anyone who understands the substance of this consultation will, like me, have been disgusted at the use of an 0870 number as a help line in connection with the Ufton Nervet Train Crash on 6 November 2004. I was disgusted for three reasons:
·someone or some organisation was making money out of people in desperate need for information
·many of those being fleeced would not know they were being fleeced
·in all probability, the person who took responsibility for using this number may not even have known what they were doing.
This wholly inappropriate use of a revenue-generating number strongly points to a regime that is corrupt at its core.

--------------------

Anyway, congratulations to all who have made some progress this time.


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freediver
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #98 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 11:16pm
 
Just seen midnight news on BBC News 24, and it seems that Mail on Sunday (oh dear... but you never know ... it MIGHT be accurate!) have a 2 page spread on the London 0870 scandal that was featured in the review of the Sunday newspapers.  Lets see what they say .. at least it guarantees more coverage.  Watch if it also features on the 9am news review program tomorrow on BBC1.  Perhaps we are finally going to see some headline coverage of this scandal.  Steve
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Alternative
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #99 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 12:17am
 
I am getting tired of hearing about this term 'revenue sharing'  It is not.  We are being too kind to the Telecom companies who sell these numbers to organisations.

The 'revenue share' is nothing more than a 'kick-back' or bribe to make companies divert their GN's to these NGN numbers and should be termed as such.  The whole thing is manifestly unfair and dishonest.

Lets stop using the term 'revenue share' in these posts!!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #100 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 2:30am
 
Quote:
This is not the first time an 0870 number has been used as an Emergency Contact Number.


True.

But it is the first time an emergency 0870 number has been publicised on this kind of scale (almost every news bulletin and Met press conference for 2 days) post the condemnation of 0870 for this purpose by the COI and by Ofcom.  It is also post the ASA ruling that the non standard cost of these numbers must be promoted/revealed - something again totally ignored by the 0870 loving and serial abusing BBC.

Ailsa Beaton at the Met seemed a nice enough lady but to know that she is on the allegedly expert Pito and yet has never informed herself about 0870 costs points to incompetence and disinterest in the telecoms field in which she professes herself to be an expert.

The biggest rogues nonetheless are Ofcom who continue to live in the total fantasy world that more promotion of 0870 costs will cure the problem when the 0870 abusers continue a Stalinist like education of their dumb call centre workers that these number are either charged only as an "ordinary local" or "ordinary national".  Since the dumb saps who work in call centres never have any form of enquiring mind they always blindly repeat these lies.
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omy
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #101 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 5:54am
 
NonGeoMan.

Sadly, whilst agreeing with most of your efforts regarding use of 0870, I do not like the tone of your last offering with regard to call centre workers. Abusive, name calling has no place here, and will only distract from the real issue.
The majority of these call centre people are just folk trying to make a living - and having to take personal abuse all day long from 'Joe Public' - and would not even hold their job if they did not follow the set script. (Supervisors are listening , or calls recorded, remember).
To call them "Dumb saps" does your argument no good at all.
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #102 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 6:55am
 
The use of this number in such a way also goes against the advice given by the COI regarding the use 0f 0870 numbers on help lines.
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dorf
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #103 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 8:55am
 
They have now announced that over 120 000 calls have been made to the 0870 1566 344 number. Let's estimate that is by now 130 000 calls. According to my research I reckon that with C&W's general level of expertise in the NGN racket arena there will have been an overall average of 30 mins per call, with queuing, call drop-out etc. and then the eventual contact conversation period. At a Premium yield of even 4 p per minute that has netted a staggering £156 000 already!

Someone somewhere must be getting this, despite all of the denials.
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Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #104 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 12:09pm
 
Victims' relatives paid 50p/min to helpline

Source: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=402137&in_page_id=2

PHONE giant Cable & Wireless is charging desperate relatives up to 50p a minute to call the police missing persons hotline, we can reveal.

Tens of thousands of people dialling the 0870 number in an attempt to account for their loved ones are being charged up to 10p a minute from landlines and as much as 50p from mobiles.

The practice was last night condemned by telecoms watchdog Ofcom, which warned last year that public bodies should not use expensive phone lines for such purposes.

Ofcom claimed it immediately told the police and the Home Office that it was 'completely wrong' to be using the premium-rate number --but that its advice was ignored.

The 0870 1566344 number has been rung more than 200,000 times since Thursday's atrocity, earning the company a significant share of the tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds generated. The police is not allowed to profit as it is a public body.

Cable & Wireless last night admitted that 'mistakes had been made', but blamed the Governmentfunded Police Information Technology Organisation (PITO) for leaving it with no alternative but to charge for the calls.

A spokesman said: 'PITO was offered an 0800 number which would have been free for callers, and an 0845 number, which would have been less expensive, but PITO would then have had to cover our costs for running the line and they said they had no money for it.'

No one from PITO was available to comment. However, if it is correct that it did not have the funds to ensure a free hotline, the question arises as to why the Home Office did not come up with the money.

An Ofcom spokesman said: 'It is entirely inappropriate that an 0870 number was used for this purpose. Once the hotline was up and running we immediately expressed our deep concerns about the consequences.

'From a landline alone, phone calls are costing 10p each minute, while from a payphone or mobile the price is four or five times that.

'Many of those attempting to dial the hotline from abroad will be devastated to discover the number does not work from their country, often because their national networks do not have an inter-connection arrangement.

'And people with low incomes may be struggling to afford the service.' Cable & Wireless's strong financial performance has only served to increase criticism. The company made profits of £377m in the year up to March and had a turnover of £3.2bn.

Its chairman Richard Lapthorne earned £396,000 over that time, while Italian chief executive Francesco Caio drew a salary of £1.9m.

The Ofcom spokesman added: 'It's disappointing that despite us publishing guidelines only eight months ago advising public sectors against using these numbers, this has occurred at such a tragic time.'

The watchdog is powerless to act, however, as the practice is not illegal. The computerised switchboard system which handles the 0870 calls is known as Casweb and automatically reroutes callers to other parts of the country when the Metropolitan Police lines become overloaded.

This has infuriated friends and relatives of those missing since the outrages. Gous Ali, who has been touring London's hospitals trying to contact his girlfriend, Neetu Jain, said: 'I have lost count of the number of times I have called this number.

'Each time it is the same - people answering the phone in some other part of the country who do not know anything of the geography of London. The last time I called, it was someone in the West Midlands.

'No one ever calls us back. It is hopeless. And to think that they are charging so much money for it makes it even worse.'

Last night Mr Lapthorne offered to make a donation to charity from the hotline revenues - but would not be drawn on how much this would be.

Speaking from his country home in Buckinghamshire, he said the charges of up to 50p per minute for calling 0870 numbers from mobile phones were dictated by mobile phone service providers.

Cable & Wireless levies the charge, however. He added: 'We are now in talks with Ofcom and service providers to work on a solution to this type of emergency.'



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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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