SAYNOTO0870.COM - London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number

bigjohn Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,316 Gender:	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #180 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 1:41pm Quote: Thanks. Where did you track that down. I rang them to complain and was given his name by the CEO PA a Sheila Ashbourne, she couldnt give me his e-mail address. As for the BT guy i still do a bit of work in the comm,s business.
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #181 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 4:34pm

I have received a callback from some zombie like sidekick of Mr Astarita, the Red Cross funding director.

Quite unbelievable.

He tells me that they receive no revenue share from BT but that when they were moving offices they had to bring in the 0870 number because it would have been so difficult to redirect all those calls on to a geographic number. Also they absolutely must have an 0870 number to get all those call logging statistics. Then he tried to tell me that 0870 calls cost no more than 4.5p per minute (those of you who know the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy tv programs may perhaps be inclined to think of the Golgafrinchan captain sitting in the large bath for the last 3 years muttering about his trajectory thingy at this point). I lost my patience with him at that point and asked if he hadn't read the Mail on Sunday article to which I had directed their attention.

When I pointed out that all of this call logging etc was available on an 0844 number at 1p per minute at all times or on an 0800 number that didn't seem to be in his BT salesmen provided pre-prepared defense script. Also when I challenged him that he wasn't complying with ASA guidelines he had no answer.

He was particularly annoying because he was a well educated late 20 something but clearly someone who only rises up the ranks by absorbing politically correct buzz speak and mouthing management platitudes. Someone like this would have no trouble at all in toeing the new management line in a totalitarian regime.

I was so angry that I ended up saying that perhaps he was too busy playing with his new company car or shiny ipod to notice what was actually going on in the real world. He didn't seem to appreciate that.

So in other words another charity that has been suckered hook, line and sinker by BT and is ploughing callers money not into its own coffers but into those of BT shareholders. Mr Astarita should resign over this one. No wonder I rarely feel disposed to making donations to these kind of organisations knowing how most of my money would be wasted on salaries, glossy offices and marketing costs.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2005 at 4:38pm by N/A »

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NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #182 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 4:41pm Quote: she couldnt give me his e-mail address asurname@redcross.org.uk as revealed by contact details quoted in one of their press releases.
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OFFSHORERADIO

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #183 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 5:01pm

Hi All

In this post http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=...

"BT IS lobbying the media regulator Ofcom to scrap 0845 and 0870 numbers over claims that the supposedly low-rate prefixes are being used to rip off consumers. "

Is this a case of the left hand does not know what the right hand does in BT

In some ways I wonder were we all better off when all we had was "The Post Office" providing UK phone services (except in Hull of course)

Dave

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2005 at 5:02pm by OFFSHORERADIO »

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #184 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 5:09pm

Quote:

Hi All

In this post http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=...

"BT IS lobbying the media regulator Ofcom to scrap 0845 and 0870 numbers over claims that the supposedly low-rate prefixes are being used to rip off consumers.

Yes the left and right hand not talking at BT is exactly it. The outrageous BT scam perpetrated on a charity like the Red Cross is a case in point. Well if what I am told is true and that they get no revenue share even though they use an 0870!!!

BT set up and masterminded the whole 0990/084/7 ripoff from the outset and have made a fortune from it over the years. They pay the salesmen who con companies into it huge commissions too.

But now that the writing is on the wall for 084/7x BT wants to look like a decent corporate citizen so at board level has gone for scrapping 0845 and 0870 whilst still confusingly proposed that 0844 and 0871 (where there are numerous different call rates that are set by the call recipient) should remain and not be regulated by ICSTIS.

I think this is what is called trying to "have your cake and eat it".

Old proverb say that man from BT he speak with forked tongue.

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Tanllan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #185 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 5:33pm

Quote:

But now that the writing is on the wall for 084/7x BT wants to look like a decent corporate citizen so at board level has gone for scrapping 0845 and 0870 whilst still confusingly proposed that 0844 and 0871 (where there are numerous different call rates that are set by the call recipient) should remain and not be regulated by ICSTIS.

I suspect that the idea is to lose (stop) revenue share on 0845 and 0870, hence scoring huge numbers of brownie points, whilst going for the maxumim share on 0844 and 0871 ("up to" indeed, it will be the maximum save for those carriers offering cheaper calls). Even now the new interconnect agreements are probably being signed off.
Angry

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pelham9

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #186 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 6:01pm

Its strikes me that the people who should get a repayment from this should be those who have been scammed -ie those who have used the number.

I think most of those who use landlines will get an itemised account showing the cost of 0870 numbers. On an itemised bill this number should show no charge. This should be easy to arrange in this computer age and then the various bodies who have profited by this would be forced to argue over the cost each should bear.

I have no idea whether mobile costs could be similarly treated - I do not use a mobile. What about calls from call-boxes, hotels and overseas?

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Martin_S Newbie Offline Posts: 28	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #187 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 6:04pm This really is a disgrace, keep it up. I'm still firing off emails to anyone at the police, home office or anywhere that might do some good. Lets keep up the pressure. Well done everyone.
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Martin_S

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #188 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 6:51pm

Now I've emailed everybody. I have just emailed Ofcom. I am a bit pissed off so it ended up being sarcy. This is part of it.....

"After emailing recently about this subject to your 'contact centre' with no reply to date, I am emailing you instead.

I would like to ask you why have approved an 0870 number is being used for this which costs up to 10p per minute to ring from a Landline?
I will not detail the costs of calling an 0870 number further as I'm sure you are aware of these(!?) As a regulator, Ofcom should have made sure this scam would have been culled from the very beginning. I would like to know what you are going to do about these 0870 numbers which for far too long have been ripping off the consumer in a most underhand way. The terrorist attack situation is the last staw. Are you finally going to do the job for which you are appointed, i.e. Telecoms Regulator? and get rid of these numbers once and for all"

Might not do any good but made me feel better.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2005 at 6:58pm by Martin_S »

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Dave

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #189 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:05pm

Over the weekend I emailed Steve Double of C&W:
Quote:

Dear Mr Double

I, like everyone else was deeply saddened to hear of the terror attacks in London on Thursday.

I was, however, completely disgusted to hear that the authorities have issued a revenue generating 0870 telephone number for contact. I understand that this number is operated by Cable & Wireless.

If this is information is correct, does your company not feel that this number has been misused? Does it not think that it is morally reprehensible that it should profit from loved ones of the victims in this way?

The 0870 numbers are a complete rip-off anyway, and it is companies like C&W which seem happy to keep the British public in the dark that they are premium rate.

Now I didn't expect a reply, but given all the uproar in the media, he has replied.
Quote:

Dear Mr

Thank you for contacting us. We have taken the decision that any profits from the Metropolitan Police's casualty bureau number will be donated by Cable and Wireless to the appropriate victims' support charity.

Please be aware that this particular type of number was chosen by a government agency, the Police Information Technology Organisation (PITO), from a number of other options. From media reports today, you will see that the government is now reviewing its arrangements.

Regards,

Steve Double

I also emailed Phillip Webb, CEO at PITO, and copied it to several people (highlighted by NGM) in the Met, Pito and Perminant Secretary at the Home Office. Needless to say, no reply from that one.

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idb

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #190 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:12pm

Quote:

I also emailed Phillip Webb, CEO at PITO, and copied it to several people (highlighted by NGM) in the Met, Pito and Perminant Secretary at the Home Office. Needless to say, no reply from that one.

I have also contacted Webb twice without any response to date. I'll be giving him a couple more days and if he and his agency continue to ignore me then PITO will get another FOI request. No response from Ofcom has been forthcoming either. These people should hang their heads in shame. They have acted in a disgusting way and haven't the decency to own up. Their actions have added to the distress of those in the most vulnerable situations.

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Martin_S

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #191 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:16pm

Wow, thats good work.

I have just also copied my email to my local Conservative MP.

...."Unfortunately I have felt the need to write to you regarding an serious issue that I feel strongly about. As appalling as the terrorist attacks have been, equally appalling is the use of an 0870 number for an emergency hotline number for victims.

I copy to you an email I sent to the home office and Police. I wonder if you could raise some questions in Parliament regarding Ofcoms effectiveness as a telecoms regulator regarding 0870 numbers especially in these situations, and regarding other points made?"

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:17pm by Martin_S »

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Dave

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #192 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:31pm

I also received a reply from David Derbyshire of the Daily Telegraph, explaining why his report was so short. Still, at least any interest is better than no interest.
Quote:

Dear Mr

Thanks for your reply on Friday. Unfortunately the story got cut hugely by our sub editors to fit the space (there was, as you can imagine, a lot of competion from other stories about the bombings) and many of the criticisms and facts about the 0870 scam were removed. However The Mail on Sunday appears to have followed it up so it wasn't a completely wasted opportunity!

Best wishes

David Derbyshire

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barclay55

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #193 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:53pm

Im sure we all rather the bombs hadnt happened. It is difficult since we dont want to be seen as raising the 0870 scam on the backs of those killed, injured or missing.

Notwithstanding similar action at the Ufton level crossing disaster in November, the unthinking issue on Thursday of a NGN for the London bombs on has yesterday prompted even the ineffectual Ofcom to raise a mild rebuke and today we have Hazel Drears trying to defend the indefensible, with every prospect on more column centimetres on the subject in tomorrows newspapers.

As ever its simply the raising of the level of understanding on 0870 that will win the day.
Theres no argument once the fog is lifted.

It gives me, and I suspect most of us, no satisfaction that the London bombs may well help its demise.

PS can any knowledgeable say whether shes right re this 200 on NGN / 40 on GN simultaneous calls limit.

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Martin_S

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #194 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:55pm

Does anyone have a link to a resource that gives evidence plain for people to see that it makes no difference if the line is 0208, 0800, or 0870.... it can still be set up to handle large call volumes??

I want to make my MP aware (and others) of this so that he can speak out against the claptrap that Home Office minister Hazel Blears said. (below)

"Asked about the cost, Ms Blears told the BBC: "That line was originally set up because it could take two hundred calls at once while the other line would only have been able to take 40 calls, but I am concerned about this. "You know the last thing we want to do is to add to people's distress, so we are going to review the situation very quickly indeed. "If we'd have just had the normal line, then people could have faced the prospect of getting the engaged single and that would have been dreadful."

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