Patient in queuing and running up a large bill I think it must mean?

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C&W have already promised to pass all of their ill gotten gains on  this 0870 line to charity Juby.  I thought you would have picked up on this.

Of course they haven't offered to pass any of their other ill gotten 0870 gains to charity though.  Also they should be persuaded that it is the disaster fund that they want to make the donation too.  Not just any old charity.

Also as I have had pointed out to me by people at senior level at C&W a very large amount more of ill gotten gains will have been earned by the five uk mobile networks due to their exorbitant charges for calling the 0870 emergency number, especially on Pay as You Go.  So the Mail on Sunday and Daily Mirror should be encouraged to ask the mobile phone networks to surrender all their ill gotten gains as C&W have already promised to do.

Perhaps that is where we should direct our efforts.

And my reply....

Dear Yvonne

Thank you for your reply. I note your points regarding call volumes. However, the system Pito have provided you does not have to be an expensive 0870 number. The 0870 number is a Non Geographical Number (NGN). It is quite possible to route calls to NGN's using 0800 numbers, as many organisations call centres do at present. For example the AA. In other words it is perfectly possible to have a freephone 0800 number which will handle the same amount of calls as the 0870 line does at present. The number prefix is not the limiting factor. I see that you have provided an 0800 number to use to give info to the police about suspected terrorists which also illustrates my point!

Your claim that the MPS does not profit from this 0870 number is untrue. 0870 numbers are revenue generating numbers and the money must be going somewhere.
If you do not believe me, I copy below a typical 0870 number providers website which shows the typical revenue stream that 0870 numbers provide:

About 0870 National Rate Numbers 

Our 0870 numbers can be called from anywhere in the UK giving your business a truly national feel.

In addition we will pay you up to 4.0p per minute for every call that you receive on your number allowing your business to generate a revenue stream.

The Benefits of 0870 Numbers 
Nationalises your company
Gives you an advantage over your competitors
Increases your advertising response and attracts new customers
Conveys a more professional image
Creates a revenue stream
Live call statistics
Connected within a few hours
Your number is portable and will never change
All content © Telecoms World PLC 2005 unless otherwise stated. Site developed by www.mcmnet.co.uk



It is actually cheaper to call America to their terrorist hotline than to call your 0870 number.

I note the provision now, of a geographical 0207 number to the hotline. This was only issued after such a fuss was kicked up by outraged people. This 0207 number has not been widely publicised. Why?  So that you can still receive plenty of revenue from 0870?. TV and Radio are still quoting the 0870 number. Please do not try to tell me this is because an 0870 number is cheaper to call for people outside London. It is not. The 0208 number is only 3p per minute daytime (even from Scotland) whereas the 0870 is at least 8p per minute.

I suggest a major review of your telecoms systems is carried out to prevent this happening again. You should scrap ALL  these revenue generating 0870 numbers ASAP.

I have also contacted my MP who is going to speak out on this issue in Parliament.

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These might be National Dialling Only ranges, for example:
London 020 0001 xxxx, which is used by Citrus Telecom.

Unfortunately, these number ranges have other problems associated with them, namely that they're not normally supposed to be used for inbound calls. Consequently, they often can't be dialled from mobiles, or from outside the UK. 

Just had a reply from the Red Cross to an email I sent complaining about their 'Donation Line' being an 0870.
I suspect their reply is a 'circular' sent to all who complain - let's hope so!  Must mean a lot of complaints!
Red Cross reply:-

Many thanks for your enquiry and comments.
Please read the following points for your consideration:
How much do calls to the London Bombings Charitable Relief Fund cost?
Phone calls to the London Bombings Charitable Relief Fund are charged at 6p per minute peak time (9am - 5pm), 3p per minute (evenings) and 1p at weekends.
Mobile phone users pay same rate as landline, although their carrier will impose a charge on top (typically pay as you go adds 1p per minute). Overseas will pay standard international rate.
Typically a call to the donation line would last two or three minutes. Therefore a three minute call at peak time a call would cost 18 pence * less than the cost of a first class stamp.
Does the Red Cross profit from calls to the donation line?
The Red Cross does not profit from calls to the donation line. The Red Cross does receive money for every call that is made to the donation line, however that money is credited back to the appeal and reduces our administration costs in running the telephone line.
For instance, of a call which is charged at 6p per minute, 3.5p goes to the service providers. The remaining 2.5p is used by the Red Cross to offset the cost of running the phone line.
This money reduces our administration costs and therefore means that more of your donation will be spent helping the victims of the bomb attacks.
Why doesn't the Red Cross use a free phone number?

A free phone number would obviously be free to the caller making a donation. Instead the cost of the call would have to be paid for by the money raised by the relief fund. With a high volume of calls that would add up to a substantial amount of money.
This would mean that less of your donation would be used to help the victims of the bomb attacks.

If the caller bears the modest cost of, at most, 6p per minute their donation will actually be worth more to the relief fund.

Why does the Red Cross use 0870 or 0845 numbers at all?

The nature of emergency appeals means that you need the facility to handle large numbers of calls at short notice. The cheapest and most effective way to do this is by using professional call centres. Using these numbers means that we have access to online management reports and can monitor the number of calls.

Using these numbers also gives the Red Cross the flexibility to divert the phone number to different calls centres essential during an emergency appeal when you might need to rapidly change the number of calls that the donation line can handle.
Any Telecoms supplier will have profit and shareholders.
I do hope this addresses your concerns.

Many thanks,
Information Resources
British Red Cross Society
www.redcross.org.uk

I will be emailing back to try and rectify some of the 'errors' in this 'essay'!

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Which telecoms company charges only 6p/minute for 0870 calls at peak times?

BT charges BT Together Option 1 customers 7.51p - and they're (AFAIK) the least expensive.

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Richard Verden (Head of Individual Giving) at the Red Cross called me yesterday and told me that 0870 calls only cost 4p per minute in the weekday daytime.  Senior staff there don't seem to know or care about the real cost of these calls.

The thing one has to bear in mind about charities is that they can be very greedy indeed in their attitude that the public must given them money and that any means to get this money are justified.

There has been coverage in a program on BBC Radio4 of major uk charities that have been left properties by people who have died and who then take relatives to court and sue them for imputed lost interest on the money they are due if they have not sold the property and give them the money within a matter of months.

A lot of uk charities have flashy London offices and well paid staff.  They also often waste millions on inefficient mailshotting campaigns that endlessly target the same people who have made just one donation to them.  Often it seems more important to their funding directors to feel they are doing something than to actually look at its real efficiency as a business would.

These charities also often also waste hundreds of millions on the ground in places like Africa on aid shipments which are stolen/confiscated and do not reach the intended destination.

Their claims about mobile phone call costs are also completely untrue.  They have quoted the best case on some contract mobiles and not the typical case on most pay as you go mobiles used by most less well off people.