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London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number (Read 353,597 times)
PeDaSp
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #75 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:18am
 
PITO and the MET are obviously fully aware of the pricing structure for various 08** numbers.

At the press conference on the bombings they sit in front of a banner that gives the number to call with any information on terrorist activity. It starts:

Call FREE on 0800... etc...
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #76 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:23am
 
Quote:
C&W public relations will be a real weak point. FOI's to PITO will tell us how much C&W have profited - and this should be given wide publicity together with a demand that they make a donation equal to their profit from the 0870 number to the victims fund.


Surely the donation should be at least double what they have earned in order to show that they are sorry.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #77 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:26am
 
Quote:
Call FREE on 0800... etc...

"Or call about your loved ones at £4.50 an hour on 0870.....  And that's assuming that we don't cut you off after an hour of queuing and make you start all over again".

Now why didn't they have a banner about that too I wonder?  But perhaps it was because if you call the 0870 number on your pay as you go mobile you might have to pay £21 an hour. Or may be £60 an hour from overseas if you can get through. Shocked Angry
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:29am by N/A »  
 
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #78 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:27am
 
PeDaSp makes some excellent points. In the aftermath of this, pressure must now be placed on Ofcom to rid the UK of these numbers once and for all. It is time for it to stop dithering. It is time for it to be accountable to the public. It is time for it to put consumers' interests first rather than the interests of BT, Capita, C&W and all the other rip-off merchants. Ofcom has produced consultation documents. It has ignored the scathing comments from the public in response to its consultations seemingly in favor of those from businesses with a vested interest in maintaining the extortion. It has even ignored the detrimental comments from its own consumer panel. When a
crisis happens such as Thursday's events in London, it fails to intervene and point out the sheer (and obvious) stupidity and abhorrent behavior of using a premium rate number to cash in on human misery. For that and other reasons, it has to be taken to task. It has absolved itself from any responsibility in providing a sensible, coherent and accessible telephone numbering system for the United Kingdom. Its policies mean that the UK is the first choice for scammers to exploit the UK system with whatever brings in the most revenue. It is supposed to *regulate* yet all it does it bloviate. Scammers around the world are looking to see what wonderful opportunity Ofcom will introduce next. Poor premium rate regulation, no default opt-out of 09, the NTS 08 regime, reverse-billed SMS and several other rip-off opportunities - all result from Ofcom incompetence.

In the short term, PITO also has to be held both accountable and liable for the debacle of issuing a number that is difficult for grief-stricken relatives to call from overseas and for issuing a number that generates revenue on the back of tragedy. FOI requests will go some way. Publicity will be better. Letters to the CEO will also help. All of these actions will hit PITO in the wallet. The CEO must ultimately take responsibility. I have written to him and will post any response I receive.
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:37am by idb »  

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #79 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:39am
 
Quote:
Publicity will be better. Letters to the CEO will also help. All of these actions will hit PITO in the wallet. The CEO must ultimately take responsibility. I have written to him and will post any response I receive.

Matt Peacock, Communications Director at Ofcom, claims that in the morning papers I will find extensive criticism by Ofcom of the Met's misuse of 0870 numbers, although personally I will be much more interested to see if there is a quote from some councillor chappie in the consumer affairs section of The Daily Telegraph.

From my attempts to contact Pito at senior level by email today I got the distinct impression that they were all claiming to be working from home (their office is in central london) although strangely none of them seemed to be reading their emails on their home computers! Roll Eyes Wink

It seems worrying that the very people who are supposed to be responsible for coordinating a Police response to a terrorist attack are all afraid to visit Central London in the middle of a crisis.
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:41am by N/A »  
 
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #80 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:46am
 
Quote:
Matt Peacock, Communications Director at Ofcom, claims that in the morning papers I will find extensive criticism by Ofcom of the Met's misuse of 0870 numbers, although personally I will be much more interested to see if there is a quote from some councillor chappie in the consumer affairs section of The Daily Telegraph.
It's already started:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/09/nafter109.xml&sS...

Desperate relatives besiege police hotline, but campaigners attack 'costly' number

More than 105,000 people have called the police emergency hotline desperate for news about loved ones.

During the busiest period between 3pm and 4pm on Thursday, a team of 200 civilian and police volunteers were bombarded with more than 42,000 calls - a rate of 700 a minute.

Yesterday, as the painstaking task of whittling down the list of names of missing people continued, there were criticisms that the Metropolitan Police were using a controversial 0870 number for their information line against the advice of the phone regulator Ofcom.

Although 0870 numbers are often mistakenly described as "national rate", they usually cost two or three times as much to call as a conventional 01 or 02 number. Similar missing persons numbers in America and Spain set up after their terrorist attacks were free.

[...]

Although the police's handling of Thursday's explosions has been praised, the Met had to defend itself against the criticism that it allocated an 0870 number for the hotline. Calls to an 0870 number cost about eight pence a minute during the day, compared with around three pence for a call to a conventional geographic phone number. A share of the money generated can go to the owner of the phone line.

The longer people are kept in automated queues, the more money is generated.

The regulator Ofcom has urged public bodies to avoid using 0870 numbers and choose cheaper 0845 or freephone 0800 numbers.

The Say No To 0870 campaign was enraged by the Metropolitan Police's decision. It pointed out that the anti-terrorist information line was a free number.

Daniel -, of the campaign, said: "I find it disgusting that someone is actually profiting from people calling in this dreadful situation.

But the Metropolitan Police said it was not taking a cut from the 0870 phone lines.

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #81 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 12:58am
 
Quote:
But the Metropolitan Police said it was not taking a cut from the 0870 phone lines.


So who exactly is getting the money then.

The tooth fairy? Roll Eyes

In fact Pito and the Met must have got Cable & Wireless to bid for the installation and maintenance contract for these numbers at an artificially low price on the basis that they could trouser all the money from the loved ones when the call centre went live.

This is in fact all a hidden backhander to the Met by artificially cutting the costs of running their call centre with C&W but as no one at C&W actually sends them a cheque they try to pretend they are not involved in the 0870 call rakeoff.

Pretty useless article really totally missing the point about BT Option 3 calls being free or about some mobile operators charging 35p per minute to call 0870 numbers.

I thought our friend David Derbyshire at The Telegraph wasn't managing to take most of it on board when I spoke to him earlier today.
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #82 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:06am
 
Quote:
Pretty useless article really totally missing the point about BT Option 3 calls being free or about some mobile operators charging 35p per minute to call 0870 numbers.

I thought our friend David Derbyshire at The Telegraph wasn't managing to take most of it on board when I spoke to him earlier today.
Yes, a very poor article missing most of teh main points including termination from overseas. It also portrays Ofcom in a positive light:

"The regulator Ofcom has urged public bodies to avoid using 0870 numbers and choose cheaper 0845 or freephone 0800 numbers. "

How on earth does this help callers from abroad? Ofcom doesn't seem to understand this simple problem regarding international termination - the very same problem it detailed in its FOI response.

How do we know Ofcom intervened? Did it intervene in response to complaints from the public? I will submit a FOI request (Ofcom never replies to me, so FOI is the only action left).

A missed opportunity by the Telegraph here.


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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:07am by idb »  

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #83 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:07am
 
Quote:
"The work of the bureau, which was formed in 1940 to collect the names of the dead during air raids, is a roll-call of British and international disaster history.

Trained staff handled the 1983 Harrods bomb, the 1987 King's Cross fire and the 1999 Paddington rail crash. It was last used after the tsunami.", David Derbyshire, Daily Telegraph, July 9th 2005


I bet they didn't have 0870 numbers back in 1940 though.

If My Derbyshire was any good as a journalist he should have picked up on the question of when an 0870 number was introduced and why straight away.

He seems to have spent far too much of his time simply copying and pasting stuff dished out by the Met PR room.  Now that's not what I call journalism.  No wonder he is a consumer affairs journalist and not a news journalist. Angry
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:11am by N/A »  
 
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #84 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:19am
 
Quote:
If My Derbyshire was any good as a journalist he should have picked up on the question of when an 0870 number was introduced and why straight away.

He seems to have spent far too much of his time simply copying and pasting stuff dished out by the Met PR room.  Now that's not what I call journalism.  No wonder he is a consumer affairs journalist and not a news journalist. Angry
He should be probing (although perhaps not literally) PITO, its CEO and PITO's relationship with C&W. He should be researching why Ofcom seemingly did not intervene. He should find out why these agencies were so incompetent. A great opportunity missed.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #85 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 1:37am
 
Quote:
He should be probing (although perhaps not literally) PITO, its CEO and PITO's relationship with C&W. He should be researching why Ofcom seemingly did not intervene. He should find out why these agencies were so incompetent. A great opportunity missed.

I told him to interview the Chief Exec of PITO and Matt Peacock at Ofcom.

The man was clearly pushing off early for a nice summer weekend and couldn't be bothered.  I have emailed the Editor and the News Editor of the Daily Telegraph to express my displeasure and disappointment.
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telcoman
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #86 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 3:44am
 
This is an absolute disgrace. See this letter in today's Daily Telegraph:

Quote:
Sir - The Metropolitan Police emergency inquiry number was an 0870 number: profiteering in the midst of the bloodshed.

Colin Shepherd, Farnham, Surrey


I am glad that the Met has been shamed into including a geographic London number. As regards putting it as 0044 instead of +44, it is a bit parochial - although some Australian and South African organisations put their international codes as 001161 and 0927 - bugger all use when dialled from those countries, never mind other ones.

Australia has a freephone 1800 number and a local 1300 one for people to contact - even though there's quite a price differential between local and national calls, they're clearly not bothered about the cost. Nor is New Zealand. Same with Ireland. So what's the UK's excuse?

Even if calls are diverted to other parts of the UK (which seems unlikely) or outside it (which would be even more cynical) that is still no justification. I call HSBC's 01226 number in Barnsley, but I may talk to someone in Scotland, India or Malaysia. With Voice over IP it costs practically nothing to receive the call anywhere in the world. 

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #87 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 8:53am
 
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Australia has a freephone 1800 number and a local 1300 one for people to contact - even though there's quite a price differential between local and national calls, they're clearly not bothered about the cost. Nor is New Zealand. Same with Ireland. So what's the UK's excuse?

The excuse seems to be that Policemen are so busy dealing with crimes that its not their job to know anything about how much phone calls cost.

But then why set up Pito a supposedly expert Police body on technology where the Met's own representative freely admits she was previously totally ignorant of the true call cost situation for 0870 calls! ??? Angry
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #88 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 9:00am
 
Quote:
This is an absolute disgrace. See this letter in today's Daily Telegraph:

I knew my letter to The Times was going to be too long but I suppose at least a letter this short shows that The Daily Telegraph believes that most people know exactly what 0870 is all about.  Its a pity though that their correspondent Mr Derbyshire did not manage to convey this impression to us in the many more words in his article on the subject in today's DT.

It also seems very worrying that the supposed Police experts on phone technology at Pito seem to be totally insulated from the realities of paying their phone bills that the rest of us have to face.  Yet one of them is the former Group Engingeering Director of BT. Shocked Roll Eyes
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #89 - Jul 9th, 2005 at 9:24am
 
Other sites Eg London Ambulance.London Govt still continue to promote the 0870 number even now!!!
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