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Home Office, IND and FOI request (Read 43,741 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #15 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 1:41pm
 
If the Home Office is still not honouring your FOI requests you should raise this urgently with the MP for the constituency where I believe you have indicated you are still on the electoral role.

If an MP writes to them to complain about your FOI request not being honoured this is sure to be dealt with at a very high level.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #16 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 2:36pm
 
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Can I suggest you complain to the Comptroller and Auditor General of the NAO to whom the Information Commissioner reports:-

john.bourn@nao.gsi.gov.uk

Alse email the Information Commissioner himself:-

richard.thomas@ico.gsi.gov.uk
Thanks - I will do just that. I will also try my MP, however to date, he has not responded my previous complaints wrt PITO/Home Office/Met.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #17 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 2:55pm
 
Home Office/IND timeline

November 27, 2004 Informal request for geographic number to enable access from overseas
November 29, 2004 Home Office (HO) acknowledgement of above request but no other response
January 27, 2005 Second informal request for geographic number
February 1, 2005 FOI request made for, inter alia, geographic number
February 4, 2005 Request for an acknowledgement of my FOI request
February 9, 2005 Second request for an acknowledgement of my FOI request
March 1, 2005 Message sent to HO stating that the twenty day response requirement had not been met
March 2, 2005 First response from HO stating inability to comply with twenty day limit
March 2, 2005 My response to the above
March 3, 2005 Reply from the HO apologizing for the delay
April 5, 2005 Complaint sent to HO regarding no response
April 5, 2005 Reply from HO - looking into matter
May 10, 2005 Further complaint about the time being taken
May 11, 2005 Reply from HO - looking into matter
May 11, 2005 FOI response provided
May 11, 2005 My request for internal review due to avoidance of answering original questions
May 11, 2005 HO acknowledgement of internal review request
May 13, 2005 Another HO acknowledgement of internal review request
May 13, 2005 Further arguments from myself relevant to request
June 20, 2005 Further submissions from myself (Ofcom's FOI statement on international originated calls)
July 7, 2005 Reply from HO extending deadline to August 7
July 27, 2005 Reply from HO extending deadline to August 26
July 27, 2005 My response indicating unacceptable delay

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #18 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 2:55pm
 
Quote:
Thanks - I will do just that. I will also try my MP, however to date, he has not responded my previous complaints wrt PITO/Home Office/Met.

That seems very poor. Who is your MP. MPs are normally very diligent about correspondence.  Have you tried telephoning his secretary during office hours to find out what he has done with your case.

There is of course always the Parliamentary Ombudsman if your MP continues to ignore your letters, although clearly something to use only as a last resort after you have chased the secretary repeatedly etc.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #19 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 3:00pm
 
Quote:
Home Office/IND timeline

November 27, 2004 Informal request for geographic number to enable access from overseas
November 29, 2004 Home Office (HO) acknowledgement of above request but no other response
January 27, 2005 Second informal request for geographic number
February 1, 2005 FOI request made for, inter alia, geographic number
February 4, 2005 Request for an acknowledgement of my FOI request
February 9, 2005 Second request for an acknowledgement of my FOI request
March 1, 2005 Message sent to HO stating that the twenty day response requirement had not been met
March 2, 2005 First response from HO stating inability to comply with twenty day limit
March 2, 2005 My response to the above
March 3, 2005 Reply from the HO apologizing for the delay
April 5, 2005 Complaint sent to HO regarding no response
April 5, 2005 Reply from HO - looking into matter
May 10, 2005 Further complaint about the time being taken
May 11, 2005 Reply from HO - looking into matter
May 11, 2005 FOI response provided
May 11, 2005 My request for internal review due to avoidance of answering original questions
May 11, 2005 HO acknowledgement of internal review request
May 13, 2005 Another HO acknowledgement of internal review request
May 13, 2005 Further arguments from myself relevant to request
June 20, 2005 Further submissions from myself (Ofcom's FOI statement on international originated calls)
July 7, 2005 Reply from HO extending deadline to August 7
July 27, 2005 Reply from HO extending deadline to August 26
July 27, 2005 My response indicating unacceptable delay


Its hard to be sure if the delay results from total incompetence or is because your requests have provoked a furious debate in the Home Office between those for and against releasing geographical alternatives to 0870 numbers.  I still suspect that waiting for the Ofcom statement on the matter before deciding what they do is the most likely scenario.

Surely if there is an initial deadline under FOI for response then just writing saying they couldn't hit that deadline is not enough.  Surely they must state the exceptional circumstances that mean they cannot comply and what is their new intended compliance date with your request.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #20 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 3:08pm
 
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Its hard to be sure if the delay results from total incompetence or is because your requests have provoked a furious debate in the Home Office between those for and against releasing geographical alternatives to 0870 numbers.  I still suspect that waiting for the Ofcom statement on the matter before deciding what they do is the most likely scenario.
Whatever the reasons, the above timeline demonstrates how utterly useless these civil servants are and the contempt that they show for the public.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #21 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 3:33pm
 
Quote:
Whatever the reasons, the above timeline demonstrates how utterly useless these civil servants are and the contempt that they show for the public.


Have you tried to get a journalist for a national newspaper to cover these delaying tactics by the Home Office?  That ought to embarass them into some action.
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mc661
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #22 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 7:40pm
 
The Labour Party GN is 0191 2465100.

I have sent 3 complaints to the Info Comis.
1: Hertfordshire Constab not answering within 20 working days.
2: BBC refusing to answer the NGN questions.
3: Rail Passengers Commtee refusing to provide GN, and also refusing to go to internal review.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #23 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 7:50pm
 
Quote:
Have you tried to get a journalist for a national newspaper to cover these delaying tactics by the Home Office?  That ought to embarass them into some action.
Unfortunately, as we've already seen, many journalists cannot understand the NGN issue and publish inaccuracies. Probably pointless pursuing this angle.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #24 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 7:53pm
 
Quote:
The Labour Party GN is 0191 2465100.

I have sent 3 complaints to the Info Comis.
1: Hertfordshire Constab not answering within 20 working days.
2: BBC refusing to answer the NGN questions.
3: Rail Passengers Commtee refusing to provide GN, and also refusing to go to internal review.
My complaints to the IC are:

1 - UKPA/UKPS, failure to respond. IC complaint filed June 22. Acknowledgement received July 1

2 - Hertfordshire Constabulary, failure to respond. IC complaint filed July 18. No acknowledgement to date.

3 - Home Office/IND for constant dithering. IC complaint filed July 27. No acknowledgement to date.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #25 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 8:08pm
 
Quote:
Unfortunately, as we've already seen, many journalists cannot understand the NGN issue and publish inaccuracies. Probably pointless pursuing this angle.


I don't agree with you.

A whole load of people I know who just didn't take the issue seriously before or understand it properly are now beginning to both understand the issue and take me more seriously on it following the coverage by national newspaper journalists of the Police 0870 casualty line scam and now the Patientline scam.

It is only if enough public anger can be accumulated in the next few weeks that Ofcom and the government can be embarassed into abolishing all 084/7 revenue sharing and forcing the scammers to retreat to 09 where they belong.  And because the scam is now exposed and because of all the embrassing FOI requests they have been getting lately (answer them or not they know they are doing something wrong when they start to get these) most companies won't dare to go down that route again.  Obviously Easyjet will but they are basically saying that if you don't have web access then you don't count.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #26 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 8:10pm
 
Quote:
My complaints to the IC are:

1 - UKPA/UKPS, failure to respond. IC complaint filed June 22. Acknowledgement received July 1

2 - Hertfordshire Constabulary, failure to respond. IC complaint filed July 18. No acknowledgement to date.

3 - Home Office/IND for constant dithering. IC complaint filed July 27. No acknowledgement to date.


It just feels like you are hitting your head on a brick wall at the moment.  If enough people make these kinds of request it is going to get embarassing for them and they will be looking for a way out.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #27 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 8:47pm
 
Quote:
I don't agree with you.

A whole load of people I know who just didn't take the issue seriously before or understand it properly are now beginning to both understand the issue and take me more seriously on it following the coverage by national newspaper journalists of the Police 0870 casualty line scam and now the Patientline scam.

It is only if enough public anger can be accumulated in the next few weeks that Ofcom and the government can be embarassed into abolishing all 084/7 revenue sharing and forcing the scammers to retreat to 09 where they belong.  And because the scam is now exposed and because of all the embrassing FOI requests they have been getting lately (answer them or not they know they are doing something wrong when they start to get these) most companies won't dare to go down that route again.  Obviously Easyjet will but they are basically saying that if you don't have web access then you don't count.
Whilst public and media awareness is becoming more apparent, it still has a long way to go. These numbers are now so prevalent that people just accept that they are going to have to pay a premium to call. Of course the publicity given to the idiotic use after the explosions in London is beneficial to the campaign, but this scam needs a high profile exposure even though some well-meaning journalists and others have skirted the edges. So far, the high-level exposure hasn't happened. So many people have their fingers in the proverbial NGN pie that it may be hard to break the stranglehold that the scammers have. The only hope, sadly, is with Ofcom, however their fingers are firmly entrenched elsewhere.
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idb
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #28 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 8:52pm
 
Quote:
It just feels like you are hitting your head on a brick wall at the moment.  If enough people make these kinds of request it is going to get embarassing for them and they will be looking for a way out.
I really don't mind how long they take (well I do, but I'll put up with it). All I know is that with each request, with each appeal, with each contact with the IC, the agency is having to put in some tangible effort with consequential expense. Because most agencies have complied with requests, it means that the Home Office will have to do the same. It may take a long time, but it is going to have to comply. That is satisfying in itself. I hope others are also submitting FOI requests with both similar and different questions, but it's difficult to determine the interest. At least one other member here is going down the FOI route.

I note that whilst the agencies are revealing the geographic numbers, they are not putting these numbers on their web sites (despite some promising to do so).
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Home Office, IND and FOI request
Reply #29 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 9:17pm
 
Quote:
I note that whilst the agencies are revealing the geographic numbers, they are not putting these numbers on their web sites (despite some promising to do so).

I feel sure you will be chasing them up over this until they comply?  Just remind them that they are otherwise making it impossible for you or anyone else in the USA to call. Shocked
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« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2005 at 9:18pm by N/A »  
 
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