SAYNOTO0870.COM - NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investigation

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #150 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:51pm

Quote:

In business Dave 10 years is quite a long time for a smaller company to have been in existence.

Granted, but Patientline's plan seems to be pure greed. Perhaps the original plan was to make a profit sooner, but have been 'enticed' by the thought of £££ into, ultimately, getting the system fitted in every hospital in the country. The other important point is that the contracts state that hospitals (or some at least) must remove all other TVs, ie no competition.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2006 at 2:18pm by Dave »

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #151 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:58pm

Just found this page. The quoted text is dated May 2005:
Quote:

Nurses were today embroiled in a row over MRSA at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. Nursing staff at ARI claim they are having to clean bedside phones. They say it should be up to private firm Patientline - which takes the money from the phones - to keep them clean of superbugs. Patientline staff clean the phones during the day. But it is claimed that nurses are having to clean them at night. They say that is not their job - and they are being backed by their union. The row comes hot on the heels of the Evening Express revealing the high-cost of calls Patientline charges families to contact loved ones in hospital.

Source: This is Aberdeen

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #152 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 2:41pm

And this from here dated 27 October 2005:
Quote:

Hospital's TV earphones could transmit superbug

Patients at Banbury's Horton Hospital could catch the MRSA superbug by sharing their bedside television headsets, it has been claimed. Headsets and earphones used by patients to listen to TV and radio have been passed from bed to bed without being cleaned or sterilised because of a shortage, a hospital volunteer has said. She has written a letter to Slough-based Patientline, the company which runs the service and charges patients �3.50 a day to watch TV and 49p a minute for phone calls. The volunteer, who does not want to be identified, wrote: "There are insufficient headsets to go round and certainly not enough to ensure each headset is sterilised between patients. At the very least, new foam ear-pieces should be fitted for each new patient. "Many headsets are faulty, and replacements are simply brought from other beds without being cleaned." She added with MRSA being a worry for all hospitals that this was a potential source of contamination. A spokesman for Patientline said: "There are sufficient headsets to go round, even though patients sometimes take them home.

Source: This is Oxfordshire

Back to top

IP Logged

Tanllan Supreme Member Offline Posts: 797 Gender:	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #153 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:47pm ye gods. These quotations are horrifying. What a grubby little country we are becoming - at the behest of those that are in a position to do better. UGH
Back to top	IP Logged

Tanllan Supreme Member Offline Posts: 797 Gender:	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #154 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:48pm ps - Well done with finding the quotations.
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2006 at 12:16am by Tanllan » IP Logged

trevord Full Member Offline Posts: 248 West Sussex, UK Gender:	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #155 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:52pm Tanllan wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:48pm: ps - Well done with fining the quotations. Seconded - especially as I raised the issue.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #156 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:59pm Tanllan wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:48pm: ps - Well done with fining the quotations. Isn't Google great? Enter patientline mrsa and they come up as the first hit.
Back to top	IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #157 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 9:28pm

Dave wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 7:59pm:

Isn't Google great? Enter patientline mrsa and they come up as the first hit. Wink

Well they would top the list under this criteria wouldn't they as they also do on Yahoo as it happens. If they didn't come up first hit then there would actually be something wrong with the search engine given that Patientline is such a specific term, especially when combined with MRSA.

Now if you put in Patientline on its own and an MRSA article comes up as the first hit then I agree Patientline would really have something to worry about. But putting in just Patientline under a UK only search on both Google and Yahoo in fact gives you a no 1 listing for the www.patientline.co.uk website as you clearly might expect.

Back to top

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #158 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 9:34pm Enter Patientline and Scam into Google on a global seach and you get over 10 pages of hits each of 10 items. The No 1 hit on the very first page is one of my own posts in this very thread. See www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-01,GGLG:e...
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2006 at 9:36pm by N/A » IP Logged

Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #159 - Jan 6^th, 2006 at 9:49pm Try Googling patientline off switch! This seems unreal! Patientline installed systems that would not switch off! Quote: Even if patients choose not to get a TV service under the plan, the screens show trailers for Patientline, the company that supplies them. Source: Times Online
Back to top	IP Logged

trevord

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 248
West Sussex, UK
Gender: male

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #160 - Jan 7^th, 2006 at 12:21am

Dave wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 9:49pm:

Try Googling patientline off switch!

I followed this link and clicked on one of the entries for the Chelsea & Westminster NHS Health Trust.
Their Visitor's Guide (sic - they must have only one Visitor!) contains the following:

Quote:

Patientline provides a ‘pay as you go’ service. You can buy Freedom payment cards from vending machines near the ward entrances or from Patientline on-site staff.

They are available in £3.50, £5 and £10 cards and pay for both TV and phone.

Patients can watch TV all day for£3.20, or pay £1.60 per hour. (After paying for two hours the rest of the day is free until 5am the following morning.)

This implies that even if you only want to pay for one hour's or one day's TV, you still have to buy a 'Freedom card' (freedom from what? sounds more like the opposite to me) costing more than you need!
Although in their Patient's Guide (sic - yes, they only have one patient as well!) the TV cost is £3.50 per day and there is no hourly rate.

The guides also contain the following statement:

Quote:

Mobile phones emit signals which can interfere with medical equipment which may cause harm to other patients. Because of this we ask that mobile phones are switched off in certain areas of the hospital.

As a general rule, mobile phones may be used in the main open areas of the hospital i.e. the atriums, but not in the ward or clinic areas.There are signs in all danger zones indicating when you should switch off your phone.

I know this is normal practice in all hospitals, but does anyone know whether it is actually true?
Or is it just a myth perpetuated in Patientline's favour?

It actually says that people should switch off their mobile phones, but doubtless very many people don't actually switch them off, but merely refrain from making or receiving calls. In the latter case the phones are obviously still transmitting and receiving signals - we don't hear of hundreds of problems of these interfering with medical equipment. Are the signals when making/receiving calls significantly different (e.g. stronger) than those when the phone is just switched on?

Back to top

IP Logged

mc661

Senior Member

Offline

Habitual FOI requester.

Posts: 432
West-Norfolk
Gender: male

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #161 - Jan 7^th, 2006 at 6:23am

I think there is no problem in having a mobile phone turned on in a hospital, but its the signals which the phone Transmits/Recives (Rx/Tx) which cause the problems.

Then again you think, why cant I use my mobile phone in this ward, when if you go up to the roof theres about 10 different mobile recivers!

Back to top

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #162 - Jan 7^th, 2006 at 9:58am

mc661 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2006 at 6:23am:

I think there is no problem in having a mobile phone turned on in a hospital, but its the signals which the phone Transmits/Recives (Rx/Tx) which cause the problems.

Then again you think, why cant I use my mobile phone in this ward, when if you go up to the roof theres about 10 different mobile recivers!

I don't believe there is any real danger in mobiles being used in hospital but they are banned just on the theoretical outside possibility that they might interfere in some way or other with an ancient non suppressed piece of old life support equipment or other owned by the NHS. So why not cut off normal communications for all NHS patients 24/7 to avoid the very remote chance of being sued for a mobile phone causing a problem and at the same time clear the decks for a perfect opportunity for an outfit like Patientline to have a total communications monopoly. Roll Eyes

Is it just me who is cynical enough to believe that the whole reason Patitentline targets NHS hospitals for their service and their rip off 070 number for incoming calls is precisely because the mobile phone ban presents a perfect environment for the scam to operate in. Ditto with the Patientline contract with the NHS apparently denying all other sources of television entertainment being allowed to remain. So they deliberately target the sick with their scam because they know that they are not able to leave hospital when they want to in order to avoid the Patientline service.

The theoretical risk on an aeroplane of causing a spark in a fuel tank from all those mobile phone signals seems a more genuine concern worth worrying about. I really believe the hospital ban is just based on fustiness and the institutionalised mentality of the NHS. And now they have Patientline I bet the contract says the NHS has to keep mobile phones banned in all its hospitals with the Patientline service. Has anyone thought of submitting an FOI on this very point? I expect commercial confidentiality may be said to apply though?

Back to top

IP Logged

pw4

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 130

Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #163 - Jan 9^th, 2006 at 12:50am

Quote:

I don't believe there is any real danger in mobiles being used in hospital but they are banned just on the theoretical outside possibility that they might interfere in some way or other with an ancient non suppressed piece of old life support equipment or other owned by the NHS.

You are mistaken. Tests have been conducted with a range of medical equipment and some found to be susceptible. Guidelines have been issued. Most - if not all - hospitals take the view that it would be impossible to enforce a ban based around certain types of equipment, especially as much of it is mobile (no pun intended) and can be deployed in any part of the hospital, so the only enforceable and easily understood policy is a ban within the hospital buildings.

Quote:

Is it just me who is cynical enough to believe that the whole reason Patitentline targets NHS hospitals for their service and their rip off 070 number for incoming calls is precisely because the mobile phone ban presents a perfect environment for the scam to operate in.

My impression is that there is no shortage of cynics.
It's no revelation that Patientline was formed with the sole aim of providing its service to patients in national health hospitals. The name of the company provides a clue. The system was devised by someone who had been surprised to discover that he couldn't just get put through on the phone to a friend or relative (I don't know which it was) when the latter was in an NHS hospital. (Bear in mind that this was over ten years ago when most patients wouldn't even own a mobile).

Quote:

Ditto with the Patientline contract with the NHS apparently denying all other sources of television entertainment being allowed to remain.

Patientline holds no contract with any NHS in the UK to fit its systems in hospitals. The ban on TVs is true to a point - the concession agreements held by companies including Patientline require the hospital Trusts to forbid the installation or operation of televisions for use by patients in the wards or at their bedsides, but not communal televisions which are provided by the Trusts in the day rooms. Many hospitals ban patients bringing their own televisions anyway, mainly for reasons of safety, but also disturbance and security. Obviously with modern handheld battery-powered TVs the only factor is security (ie, risk of theft), but the risk is serious.

Quote:

The theoretical risk on an aeroplane of causing a spark in a fuel tank from all those mobile phone signals seems a more genuine concern worth worrying about.

I was unaware of this risk. Where did you hear this? Is there a higher risk in a bus where the passengers are closer to the fuel tank and the fuel is more volatile?

Quote:

I really believe the hospital ban is just based on fustiness and the institutionalised mentality of the NHS.

I have addressed the safety aspect earlier, but there are several valid reasons for banning mobiles in wards, most of which are not technical and do not relate to concessions held by companies including Patientline. The ban applies in most hospitals regardless of whether such concessions have been awarded.

Quote:

And now they have Patientline I bet the contract says the NHS has to keep mobile phones banned in all its hospitals with the Patientline service. Has anyone thought of submitting an FOI on this very point? I expect commercial confidentiality may be said to apply though?

You are mistaken. Confidentiality would not apply - because Patientline holds no contract with any NHS in the UK to fit its systems in hospitals.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2006 at 12:52am by pw4 »

IP Logged

firestop Full Member Offline Do unto others, before they get a chance to do.... Posts: 164	Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga Reply #164 - Jan 9^th, 2006 at 7:58am I see, now, it's 'concession' not 'contract' - so that makes it OK Patientline are, it seems, wheeling out yet another director to try and justify their scam.
Back to top	IP Logged