It looks to me like Malcolm Bruce MP has had a tipoff from someone in the telcos attending all those cosy NTS Focus Group sessions?  I do hope that Mr Bruce is not a shareholder in one of those NTS number selling operations?  Or perhaps he is a director of one of the main call centre receiving scam merchants.

Do I detect that Ofcom is now going to try and bury a set of highly consumer unfriendly proposals for reforming NTS in the middle of August when there won't be enough people around to shoot them down over it?

Who me cynical!

[quote]Malcolm Bruce (Gordon):To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, what assessment has been made of the likely impact Ofcom's proposal to remove revenue sharing of the 0870 number range will have on the Number Translation Service industry.[/quote]
No prizes for answering that one - they'll all change to the (more expensive) 0871 number range.

[quote author=bill  link=1122669309/0#3 date=1122670278]
No prizes for answering that one - they'll all change to the (more expensive) 0871 number range.
[/quote]
Many call centres will change to 0871 but not all.  Quite a few companies running 0870s were scammed into taking the numbers and if 0870 becomes ordinary national rate with no revenue share they won't actually move to 0871.

0871 is not quite the evil varmit it is painted to be since its lowest call rate is actually 6p per minute and 10p per minute is merely the highest rate allowed.  But how are people supposed to cope with the same dialling code having different hidden call prices unless there are clear price announcements.  Ofcom tell us that more disclosure is the answer and yet a major city regulator like the FSA still still tells us on their website that 0845 is "local call rate".

It will be little short of an outrage if the revenue share needs of a few withering dialup 0845 ISPs let revenue share remain for all other 0845 voice based numbers.  What happens then?  Do all ethical 0845 voice numbers have to move to 0870?

Can one assume that most revenue sharing call centres will be the last businesses in the UK to permit IP based phone access and that they will carry on using POTS numbering until it is abolished in about 2015?  Also presumably Ofcom will no doubt permit charging for computer to computer voip call centre access>

Don't worry folks - VoIP is just like email and will be the death of all this POTS/0870 nonsense.

It'll take a couple of years - but it will come ;D

[quote author=NonGeographicalMan  link=1122669309/0#5 date=1122670995]
 But how are people supposed to cope with the same dialling code having different hidden call prices unless there are clear price announcements.  [/quote]
Free front-end announcements would be the answer, but Ofcom might be concerned that they are too expensive to provide (so just how do 18866 and 1899 manage?) and not always technically possible.
But really the 08 scams must stop and we must have proper announcements on 09X.

You make some good points NGM - and it will be interesting to see what happens.

My point is that VoIP is like email in that it is totally FREE (apart from the internet connection). Even when you call a normally POTS number via VoIP it can be free.

1. VoIP to VoIP calls are free. And as peering arrangements between providers, and the ability to dial URL VoIP address on more sophisticated and dedicated VoIP IP hardware and software phones becomes more prevalent, then a worldwide VoIP network will develop. (Most likely based on SIP - folks like Skype will either die out or move to SIP).

2. A number of worldwide "lookup" databases to link POTS numbers to their associated VoIP address are now coming online. Some such as enum work at the teleco level (allowing providers to charge for a call that is free to them); but others will work at the user level. These databases (effectively DNS lookup for VoIP), mean that if I dial a POTS number a search will be made for an associated VoIP address - and that will be used to place a free call - if such an address exists.

3. The cost of VoIP calls that breakout into the POTS work are already coming down. Providers such as Broadvoice.com charge just $20 for unlimited calls to over 24 countries. And some providers such as voipbuster.com give free POTS calls to a range of countries (but how long this will last for remains to be seen). Of course just like email you can have multiple VoIP accounts and just select the best one for your current call.

4. There will be an explosion of VoIP use as combined WiFi VoIP/Mobile phones and pure WiFi VoIP (VoWLAN) phones come online. This is all linked to the broadband/WiFi/WiMAX rollout.

5. VoIP is going to be totally integrated into web browsers and applications. This is already happening. VoIP softphones will be built into browsers and/or the URL of VoIP hardphones will be linked to active URL VoIP address on webpages - just like your email program is linked to email URLs. So just as now you click on an email link and your email program opens with the destination email address opens; so you will click on a VoIP URL and your soft/hard phone will dial the VoIP number.

6. VoIP providers are getting more and more wary about allowing access to any premium rate or NGN POTS numbers worldwide. This is because they are falling prey to scammers who use abritage to make millions. (Even normal POTS telcos fall prey to this). They are also limiting access as they cannot keep track of all the differing charges worldwide. Or they are massively marking-up such calls.

My Broadvoice account allowed unlimited calls to 0870 and 0845 for 5 months until they got the bill from Global Crossing!!!! So as folks move over to pure VoIP their access to NGN numbers will decrease.

7. It's possible that specialist VoIP providers will develop giving access to premium rate and NGN numbers - but they charge an excess. Plus you will be fully aware that you are making a chargeable call.

8. Most call centres; large corps and gov departments already have pure VoIP internal networks. So it will be technically possible for them to switch to VoIP for incoming calls. You can buy VoIP servers that can handle thousands of VoIP calls for a couple of thousand dollars ("Asterisk" VoIP sw is free). And bandwith cost is coming down.


Now at present users are fooled into calling 0870 number etc... as the believe they are just paying a "normal" phone call rate.

BUT with the expansion of VoIP, users will start to expect that they should pay NOTHING for ANY phone call to ANYWHERE. And as VoIP becomes easier and more ubiquitous SOME companies will start to give out VoIP numbers and VoIP URL addresses.

Slowly but surely the wheels of free market capitalism will grind and companies will use VoIP to differentiate themselves and grab consumers who are VoIP aware. How will companies NOT be able to have a VoIP URL that the consumer will be able to click on and instantly connect to a call centre?

This is not "we'll call you back" buttons where you enter your telephone number. This is instant connection. I have already trialed such a system on one of my own companies webpage. Customers clicked on a button and then heard me talking to them via their computer's speakers and microphone. THEY ARE GOBSMACKED! ) They don't even need to have a VoIP soft/hardphone or even know what VOIP is.

...

Quote:


PeDaSp I note your clearly learned technical expertise on Voip and its future techncial rollout which is clearly greater than mine.

Nonetheless taking your points above I note that Easyjet now charge £1 a minute on an 0906 number for technical advice on how to use their website and 65p per minute for telephone bookings on an 0905 number that costs even more from mobiles and BT payphones.   These numbers do not rely on people wrongly thinking the call cost is only at the BT National Rate.  They rely on them knowing it is going to cost them a lot more.

Their old 0870 customer contact centre number still exists but is now barred if it is called from within the UK even if you withhold your number.  UK customers now have to call a 10p per minute 0871 number which is in practice almost useless as there are endless menus that deliberately try to prevent you from speaking to anyone.  Next month that will be on 0905 too.

Companies like Easyjet seem to be able to get away with selling a bad product aggressively to a dumb public because most of the public only respond to criticism that is printed in the newspapers and mysteriously Easyjet is hardly ever publicly criticised for its many quite deplorable customer services practices.

I see everything moving towards online ordering forms and query screens with large corporates and with the government.  If you want a voice mechanism they are going to charge extra.  You will note that most sex webcams on the internet do seem to manage to find a way to charge for their services online and stuff sold on auctions on ebay is not actually sold for free.

So technically speaking providing free voip calls is no issue but unfortunately these large corporates no longer want to talk to you for free.