What do you want NGM - me to come round and set you up with VoIP

Just take a good look at www.voip-info.org and all well be revealed.

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Nope. You can just buy a cheap ATA adaptor to set between your master DECT cradle and a ethernet socket on your router. This turns your whole DECT system to VoIP. Spend a bit more and a Supura ATA will give you POTS and VoIP on all your DECT phones.

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True - but VoIP/VoIP calls are free - and POTS calls via VoIP are often just 1.5ppm or even less. They will get lower and lower. Or you can hook up with www.broadvoice.com and pay $20pm for unlimited calls to 21 countries

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For this you need your DECT solution above - or buy a WiFi handset. Soon these will be just £30-40.

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It's happening big time in the USA. Everywhere is starting to offer free WiFi as it pulls folks in: Starbucks; McDonalds; Airports; Petrol Stations; Campuses etc... Folks are starting to expect free WiFi just like they use the loo for free.

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That will be solved by WiFiMAX which is just around the corner. One transmitter can cover 25 square miles.

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WiFi VoIP has nothing to do with 3G etc... See my earlier post.

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WiFi VoIP is totally a function of the handset. So although Orange may want me to to use THEIR handset where I would be tied to their VoIP service only; I will be able to buy a WiFi VoIP/GSM handset and just stick the SIM card in. Or I will be able to download a hack to unlock the Orange handset (just like I do now). WiFi VoIP chipsets are becoming so cheap that they will be installed in all mobile phones - they are actually combined with the GSM chip.

Remember - WiFi VoIP calls are NOT made via the mobile phone providers network.

At some point one of the major mobile providers will bite the bullet and offer unrestricted WiFi VoIP access as it costs them nothing (it's just a function of the phone like a radio). Then all the others will follow suite. VoIP has lots of other features like presence (see which of your contacts is logged-on); Instant Messaging and Texting. All free, as it's just a few big servers in a room anywhere in the world.

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See comments above about WiFiMAX.

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It's happening so fast you would not believe it! All the manufactures are rushing to produce phones; and WiFiMAX is being trialed in the North of England as we speak. VoIP is exploding. BT have just committed £10 BILLION - yes BILLION pounds to start the first stage of moving their whole network over to IP based telecommunications. This is the largest project of it's kind in the whole world.

I made a VoIP call to by business partner in China and it was the clearest phone call I've EVER made. China's telecoms infrastructure is almost totally IP based as they've built it from the ground up. And there is a massive excess of fibre optic cabling linking the world left over from the mad dotcom boom.

...

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It in fact costs them the lost traffic on their mobile network!!!  You really think people who block free 0800 calls because they fear some customers will use third party call carriers are going to roll over and make it easy for you to route calls off their networks.  Absolutley not.  You can expect them to start locking the Sims down too so they will only work in one of their own phones and that phone will not have any Wifi functionality.  If it does have Wifi it will only connect with a proprietary Orange encoded wireless base station.  The majority of the public are stupid and lazy so they won't find a workaround.  I have a Liechtenstein Riiing SIM here that receives incoming calls free GSM calls anywhere in Europe and can be called for only 4p per minute from the UK.  But how many members of the public have bothered to get one or find out about them.

There has also just been an important uk court case where there was a successful prosecution of someone who logged into a Wifi access point that was not password protected in any way.  But he was seen to be stealing their bandwidth.  Make phone calls all round London over wifi.  Yeah I'm sure you do and keep dropping the call out every 10 seconds or so as you move.

WiMax is an uproven pipe dream at present.  Its great until the air waves are clogged.  My current Netgear DG834g adsl wireless router starts having reception problems when I turn the video sender on my television on.  What happens when there are tens of thousands of people clogging these same bands.  Why are BT spending a fortune on upgrading their fixed line network if WiMax is going to be so excellent and all reaching a solution?

Not everyone lives in Covent Garden.  If WiMax was as great as you maintained the mobile companies wouldn't still be building any new transmitters.  Instead they would all be planning their own funerals.

But have it your own way.  WiMax will of course I'm sure  be the answer to everything even though it hasn't even successfully passed testing yet.

Orange are only the most persistent because they are the only company to still allow free of charge (not against allocated minutes) calls to 0800 numbers for contract customers.  They actually deserve credit compared to the other companies who charge 30 to 50p per minute for mobile calls.

The whole uk market is set up for the benefit of the mobile companies and not to ensure the best prices for customers.  How else does one explain 20% of the uk land mass still not having mobile coverage and yet cross network roaming not being allowed to fill the gaps in these areas!

Oh dear NGM! You're starting to remind me of the old days when I ran an IT company and would rave to my SME customers about something called "email" and something call "the internet".

They all just laughed and thought my business card with my "email" and "web" address was cute!

Now I have my VoIP address on my biz card - and folks think that's cute!

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WiFi/WiMAX VoIP are a total sea change. This is not some little adjustment or altercation over 0800 numbers. As you can tell I'm plugged into the telcoms business and know what's happening. WiFi/WiMAX VoIP and VoIP in general is the biggest thing since email/www. Billions are being invested. Huge corporations (starting in Japan and USA) are installing massive WiFi VoIP networks with thousands of AP's.

Yes the mobile cos will be linked-in as the WiMAX stations can sit on their towers without interfering with their GSM. And yes WiMAX is a couple of years away at least. But INTEL are putting the circuitry for WiFi/WiMAX directly into their future generation of chips - so everything will become wired.

The producers of WiFi VoIP phones and WiFi hardware are NOT the mobile companies - so they don't have a monopoly.

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True - but a huge percentage of mobile calls are made when stationary at desks; tables; pubs; sport stadia; airports; schools; campuses etc... Your handset can see if your calling party is "on-line" and route the call via VoIP.

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Billions are being spent to solve these issues. Such problems in the WiFi VoIP area have already been solved by companies such as: www.merunetworks.com

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Because they know the whole world is going IP for data and voice (and IP TV/Movies!) - and it's so much simpler/efficient. And the backbone will be needed to route all the traffic between the various hubs. I'm not saying the WiMAX will be a total solution; but it's ability to provide data and voice to a wide area is not to be underestimated.

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Actually they are all shit-scared. I have friends who are telcoms consultants and they say the mobile companies are wetting themselves. They've already taken a huge hit with 3G and they're wondering what's around the corner.

Their hope is that POTS will disappear to replaced by WiFi VoIP and cellular. If they can get folks away from landlines and just have mobile handsets; then mobile calls via cellular might take a huge boost - even with many VoIP calls.

The change is being lead by the big corporates. Meru Networks are installing a huge WiFi/VoIP network for a Japanese gas corp. They'll use a WiFi/Cellular handset so that employees can have just one contact number. They use the WiFi in the corps buildings/network and then move over to Cellular outside. POTS goes down the drain. The mobile phone companies can hardly then demand that they use some sort of propriety WiFi VoIP system.

It's true that most of the public don't have hours spare to find the best deal; but they will snap up new technology pretty quickly these days. Look how quickly we swap out our old mobile phones - every year!

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OK - I'm not saying it's the second coming (that's next Wednesday in Regent's park ); but the combination of WiFi/WiMAX/VoIP/Multi Mode Cellular handsets is pretty strong and will create a mini revolution at least.

Huge hurdles had to be overcome to make VoIP practicable over what was a network designed for data packets - but it's now arrived.

Remember: VoIP is just email for voice! Your VoIP address is just a URL like your email address. Indeed with the right set-up your email and VoIP address can be the same.

Email is FREE (once you have the connection).
Ditto VoIP.
Almost EVERYBODY has an email address.
Almost EVERYBODY has a mobile phone - and soon they will ALL have WiFi VoIP wether you want it or not.
The combination of the above will drive the huge proliferation of WiFi/WiMAX /VoIP/Broadband.

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I assume Dave is on holiday Dorf.  I think DaveM has become a bit less active here too after he began to realise that not everyone appreciated his editorial style.

I just received this article in an on-line magazine VON (Voice on the Net). I thought it was worth sharing, as it seems to confirm many of the issues that have been raised in this thread. Enjoy!

Flat rate VoIP over 3G
25 Jul 05  |  Bob Emmerson, European Editor

The new smartphones have Wi-Fi as well as cellular air interfaces, so VoIP calls can be made from hot spots and networked homes. Mobile operators buy lots of phones from the vendors and this was a development they tried to block. The vendors said the interface was only meant for data — they would say that wouldn't they — but when one manufacturer (Motorola) broke ranks the rest followed.

Solutions that select the optimum interface automatically are being marketed (see “Wireless Going On in Cannes”, June issue) and wireline operators get into the act via Wi-Fi access to the local loop. The wireless guys want you to dump your landline service in some markets, which has already happened in Scandinavia where tariffs are low, so this is another negative development from their blinkered perspective.

3G networks have an IP infrastructure but the air interface for voice traffic is circuit switched, which is ironic but VoIP has a relatively high overhead so yesterday's technology is more efficient. You can do VoIP but, I was told earlier this year, this de facto data communication would be more expensive than a regular cell call. That situation would change if operators offered ‘all the data you can eat' services for say $50 a month. Verizon did and Vodafone are going down that route in Germany, where tariffs are high. Their new offer is 1,000 minutes of local and national calls for Euro 20 ($24) a month.

This is good news for subscribers and you can see it as smart marketing, but what about that high overhead. If it was an issue earlier on why has it gone away? Why wasn't a flat rate service being marketed as part of 3G's belated rollout? That would have been really smart marketing. Why are they doing it now?

Operators, wireline and wireless, are scared. Skype was a gigantic wake-up call. Packetized voice needs four times more bandwidth than circuit-switched cellular so the techies don't like it, but 3G operators have bandwidth coming out of their ears so the marketing types decided to go with the flow. However, 3G allows operators to deliver voice services at around one-third of the 2G cost, so margins are high and they need to be in order to recoup some of the ludicrous, lemming-like ‘investments' made in air licenses. Moreover, while they expected margins to decline over time, they did not think that wireless VoIP would have a significant impact for a few years. Conclusion: maybe you should eat your own lunch before somebody takes it away.

Maybe. Those high margins are needed to support the implementation of IMS services, which are seen as the silver bullet that is going to make 3G profitable. And video is being hyped to the hilt because — surprise, surprise — this service eats bandwidth. Thus, on one hand revenues will decline and on the same hand a chunk of bandwidth is being used inefficiently. 

 
Bob Emmerson, VON European editor, is co-author of the book 21st Century Communications.

Yep - thanks mikeinnc. You learn something new every day!

So 3G can offer VoIP (sort-of) calls via their internet bandwidth connection? Weird eh? Why on earth would Vodaphone offer 1,000 mins local/national for $20pm via VoIP 3G This would just drain calls via regular cellular. Why not just offer the calls via regular cellular?

Even I'm getting confused now...