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It looks like we are on the same side here after all but started off on the wrong front.  As I have always believed the real enemies here are not actually the call centre operators (especially the 0845 call centres) but the telcos who have behaved as a quite disgraceful cartel in the way that they both price and market these NTS number ranges.  They have ripped off the 0845 call centres, who just want to get the calls efficiently, every bit as much as they have ripped of the customers.  It is the telcos and OFTEL/Ofcom who are the real guilty men here.

The NTS system provided a certain amount of extra call monitoring and routing facilities that were new in the early 90s.  There was no reason why these extra facilities ever needed to be on new telephone exchange number ranges that were non geographic.  That was pure marketing by the cynics in BT who always intended to turn them into a special class of number that they always intended to gradually separate into premium rate traffic.  The only numbers which ever actually had a case for their own exchange code was 0800 which needed to have the special code to make clear that they were free.

0845 were a particular master stroke of deceit by BT and Cable & Wireless since originally companies who had them were seen to be doing ordinary BT customers a favour by offering a lower price if they were outside the local calling area.  Of course those of us who used non BT call carriers found that we did not reap these benefits with 0845 from as early on as 1997 or 1998 but for the average BT customer 0845 could be said to have been an advantage.

Then having got thousands of call centres signed up on 0845 another part of BT panicked under the onslaught of all that aggressive Tele2 advertising in early 2004 and said they must have lower prices for geographic fixed line calls.  And thus voila in a moment local rate was abolished and BT Option 1 became a compulsory minimum plan.  Suddenly normal national calls only cost 5.5p per hour off peak and 0845 calls cost 60p per hour and so it all began to unravel.

The whole problem could be solved if revenue shares taken by the TCPs on 0845 were drastically cut (especially off peak and at the weekends) so the calls cost the same as 01 and 02 calls.  The only people to suffer would be the Telcos who have had large amounts of their conventional fixed line phone charges replaced by broadband line rental.

So in summary I understand how your call centre ended up where it is today with 0845 but it is not us you need to attack for asking unreasonable questions it is the Telcos and Ofcom you need to challenge.  You need to ask them why the same old high 0845 NTS revenue share for the Telcos and terminating call parties are still allowed in this new low cost call environment.

If we re-examine where each of us are coming from here I think you can start to see that potentially we are both on the same side.

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That is one aspect. The fact that some of the call charges are passed on to your company's subcontractor for services provided to your company means that the caller is really subsidising your phone system!

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I think you misunderstood. The fact that NGNs exist in their present state does not justify it. They should surely be charged at 'normal' rates.

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It's a plain dishonest way of 'profiting' from your customers.

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But have you scared off the 'Operations Director' or will he/she return?!!

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juby

Been a bit busy the last few days, so pity I didn't add my 2 pence worth in this debate at the time!!

When you shop in a supermarket, no I don't expect them to pay for my petrol, or car running costs to get to the store.

In that the same way, when I phone either a friend on an 01/02 number, or phone a company on an 01/02 number, I don't expect them to pay part of my BT line rental, or the cost of buying my cordless telephone.

However if the £1 you put in a trolly was non refundable because the trolly provider provides Sainsburys with free trollys, and decided to enter into a commercial arrangement that every customer entering the store MUST use one.  Also, the trolly provider would con Sainsburys into thinking that customers get added benifit of using their trollys instead of a rival company that would would offer Sainsburys to buy their trollys, for their customers to use free of charge.  Now the company would also offer to pay Sainsburys 25p of every £1 that was collected, so surely providing free trollys and a chance to share the profits is such a good idea, and money spinner for Sainsburys, it must be worth it, and of course the customers will pay.

Actually Sainsburys would go with the other offer.  They buy trollys, and customers can use them free of charge.  Despite that other tempting offer, any supermarket would know that if we had to pay a premium on top of travelling to the shop, and buying our goods, customers would go somewhere else.

So, why don't call centre managers follow the example of supermarkets.  We don't expect you to pay our travelling costs to the supermarket (or our line rental costs) but we won't pay extra for using a trolly which you profit share from (0870, and 0845) when all we want to do is shop at your store (talk to a company as a customer)


Now for the newspaper having adverts, and charging a cover price.

We know this before we buy the paper!!  We have a choice before we buy the paper!!  Sometimes people reading those adverts decide to respond, and the reader is grateful that the paper has advertised a business that offers a service at a better deal than they were getting before.  The business is grateful that the paper has increased their customer base.

What benefits do we get from calling 0845, and 0870?  Do we speak to a more professional call centre agent than we would get on an 01/02 number? Does our call get answered quicker?  No, we speak to the same call centre agent that answers the 0870 lines, and with call queueing, the call certainly does not get answered quicker!!

Whilst I accept that many companies like Operation Director don't use NGN for revenue sharing, many more do.  Companies have been conned as much as the public on NGN numbers, and many are quite happy to inform customers of the 01/02 number if asked.  However many more refuse point blank to do so, and some deny their existance.  Once an 01/02 number is discovered, some companies go out their way to withdraw that facility, and insist we MUST call 0870.

Good point.  I've been following this thread with interest.  I am also currently waiting for PayPal to respond to an escalated complaint I have made as to why it must cost around 4 times as much to phone PayPal here in the Uk compared to phoning PayPal in America out of all places!

I was sent an e-mail back on Monday telling me that my complaint had been escalated to a manager.  They haven't replied yet and I do not know what they will say when and if they do!

Alternative (to NGN's!)

But then again, who in their right mind wants to be an ªm*®!©ªn !!

If you want to be like them, go over there. Let them keep their systems and we'll keep ours thanks very much. 

Try working with them for 5 years or more and you'll see what I mean. But that's another story !!