SAYNOTO0870.COM - 18866 increase connection charge!!!

bbb_uk

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #75 - Sep 20^th, 2005 at 5:50pm

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Perhaps 18866 thought they would recoup more money than they have done on their disgraceful 9p a minute charge to 0870 numbers. Its strange they need to charge that when dialaround and another Finaria NGN brand carry calls to 0870 for 5p per minute

That along with those people that just make quick minute or so calls to geographical numbers.

As for dialaround cheap NGN cost is off-set by the penny charge to geographical calls whereas Call18866/1899 only charge 3p per call.

I don't believe there to be just one company that is cheapest on everything because they probably couldn't stay in business. That's why we have to use several companies depending on type of call and time of day, etc and why I love the Orchid dialler which once programmed does it all for us.

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« Last Edit: Sep 20^th, 2005 at 5:51pm by bbb_uk »

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idb

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #76 - Sep 20^th, 2005 at 6:35pm

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By the way what has happened to idb lately? Has he either gone off on a world tour or found himself a job I wonder as he was the man we could previously rely on to come up with interesting articles in the press:-

As well as doing a little paid work, I've been sampling the delights of Montana, Wyoming and Idaho for a few days. To emphasize the contrast between the UK and the US - I rented a car from Avis in Montana. When I got home and checked the bill on-line, it was incorrect. One call to a toll-free number, answered within one ring and no queuing, resulted in the correction being made without any difficulty. Problem solved. When I was last in the UK in April, again the rental invoice was wrong. Trying to deal with Avis UK from over here was a nightmare, and whilst the bill was eventually rectified, it was not straightforward and required multiple emails and calls (after I had found the non scam number). The United States is far from perfect, however it knows how to do customer service. Every hotel we stayed in had a toll-free number. Every tourist office and other useful service on our travels used either toll-free, local, or often both numbers. I really feel sorry for tourists visiting the UK and the unexpected charges for calling simple services and travel-related providers. As I sit here and type this, the outer bands of hurricane Rita are passing by. As with Katrina the other week, which also made a mess here in south Florida before devastating LA, MS and AL, state, local and federal officials as well as commercial entities such as banks, airlines and hotels generally provided toll-free numbers. I can just imagine what would happen in the UK should it ever experience a natural disaster - call 0870 this, 0870 that and 09 whatever just to communicate with essential city, county and country authorities. Anyway I'm starting another round of FOI requests and will continue to post media exposure of the NGN scandal and Ofcom's support of such scammers.

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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #77 - Sep 20^th, 2005 at 6:48pm

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Anyway I'm starting another round of FOI requests and will continue to post media exposure of the NGN scandal and Ofcom's support of such scammers.

Its good to hear that you have been travelling for a little while.

So far as Ofcom goes I don't think they are even compliant with new ASA guidelines yet in terms of the maximum pence per minute cost of their 0845 phone number on a BT phone line. Of course they have tried to do the right thing by saying 0845 is mainly more expensive, except for those on the BT Light User Scheme, but they are still not compliant with ASA guidance on the matter.

I think the continued delay in any pronouncement by Ofcom on this issue is highly significant. I suspect there is an almighty row going on between those who don't want to upset the cosy deals of their telecoms industry chums and those who realise that they will be laughed out of court over their current proposal to make 0845 numbers more expensive than most 0870 numbers.

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bigjohn Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,316 Gender:	Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!! Reply #78 - Sep 20^th, 2005 at 7:14pm Just seen this recent post on the Nifty List complaining about another Finerea service .Their Customer Service seems to be getting worse. http://niftylist.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=171.new#new
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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!! Reply #79 - Sep 21^st, 2005 at 8:44am NGM, I do not understand your point about "0845 is mainly more expensive, except for those on the BT Light User Scheme,....". Are you sure this is correct?
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bbb_uk

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #80 - Sep 21^st, 2005 at 9:13am

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I do not understand your point about "0845 is mainly more expensive, except for those on the BT Light User Scheme,....". Are you sure this is correct?

BT charge two sets of prices for their customers. Those on BT Together Option 1 or above pay a lower rate for 0845 calls and geographical calls local or national cost 3ppm. Those on BT Light User Scheme pay more for 0845 and national geographical calls cost nearly 8ppm therefore for those on BT Light User Scheme who are not in the same 'local' area as the company/government dept they are calling then they will pay upto 8ppm to call the geographical number whereas it would be cheaper on an 0845 number.

For example OfCOM are based in London so anyone outside of London on the BT Light User Scheme will pay nearly 8ppm to call OfCOM geographical number and about 4ppm to call their 0845 number. Those based in London calling OfCOM are better ringing the geographical number. Obviously those on BT Option 1 or higher it is always cheaper to call a geographical regardless of where they are based and who they are calling.

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« Last Edit: Sep 21^st, 2005 at 9:15am by bbb_uk »

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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!! Reply #81 - Sep 21^st, 2005 at 5:43pm OK, thanks bbb_uk, I understand now what was meant. It was ambiguous. It meant that a 0845 call is more expensive for most people than a normal geographic call, except for those on the Light User Scheme who pay less for an 0845 call than they would pay for a National Call?
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #82 - Sep 21^st, 2005 at 8:02pm

Quote:

OK, thanks bbb_uk,
I understand now what was meant. It was ambiguous.

This is what Ofcom now say on their website:-

Phone:
020 7981 3040 (this number will be the cheapest option for most callers)
or
0845 456 3000 (this number may be cheaper for callers on the BT Light User Scheme calling from outside the London area)

As shown here:- http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/contact/tel_issues/

I think you will find that the real authors of any ambiguity on the cost of 0845 versus geographic calls for different classes of BT phone package subscriber is in fact Brtish Telecom rather than my good self Wink

My recent conversations with John Strutt, General Manager of BT Retail Pricing, Policy & Design have revealed there are in fact over 1 million BT phone lines on the Light User Scheme but I very much doubt that these account for more than 1% of all phone calls on the network (because their owners do not use them very much).

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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!! Reply #83 - Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 7:48am Yes NGM. I was not blaming you. It is as always Ofcom that shroud everything in bamboozle and ambiguity. They are so use to doing this to conceal their real intent that it has become a habit methinks!
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #84 - Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 12:48pm

Quote:

Yes NGM. I was not blaming you. It is as always Ofcom that shroud everything in bamboozle and ambiguity. They are so use to doing this to conceal their real intent that it has become a habit methinks!

I saw an advert in The Times this week for the position of non executive Director with the Advertising Standards Authority.

Now interestingly a pre-requisite for applying for this post is that one must not now and indeed must never ever have worked in the advertising or direct marketing industries.

So how is it that when one regulator is set up on a basis that specifically avoids the likely conflict of interest caused by employing industry experts that another regulator is almost totally stacked from stem to stern with such people when they are clearly genetically incapable of seeing what are the interests of citizens and consumers as compared to the selfish business interests of the large uk telecoms companies?

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Smasher

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #85 - Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 11:07pm

To try and sweeten this thread about the price rise, I've just been listening to MSE Martin's Money Mutterings (it's at 7:24 minutes through the sound file if you want to listen to it - see below for link) where he says that he may have found a way to undercut providers such as 18866 and 1899 to give even cheaper calls... Shocked

The article is due to be published in around 10 days, so I assume we can rely on idb to let us know when this is made public, if I don't beat him to it Wink

Money Mutterings Broadband (Streamed)
Money Mutterings Dial-up (Streamed)

Money Mutterings Broadband (Download to listen)
Money Mutterints Dial-up (Download to listen)

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #86 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 5:53am

Quote:

I've just been listening to MSE Martin's Money Mutterings (it's at 7:24 minutes through the sound file if you want to listen to it - see below for link) where he says that he may have found a way to undercut providers such as 18866 and 1899 to give even cheaper calls... Shocked

Smasher,

This only tells us the same thing that you have written in your post as a sound file.

What's the betting that his new announcement will be about http://www.voipcheap.co.uk and http://www.voipbuster.co.uk?

I must say that after making a post in the MSE forum I find myself not at all comfortable with the groupie type aspects of that place where no criticism of Martin Lewis is allowed, where people write posts sycophantically so as to get "Thanks" from other posters and where Martin Lewis constantly locks any thread that he doesn't like the discussion in.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 5:56am by N/A »

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Smasher Senior Member Offline Posts: 346 UK	Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!! Reply #87 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 10:01am If this announcement is about VoIP then it would only apply to those who have broadband, I presently do not and therefore can't benefit from it . If someone doesn't have broadband, it wouldn't be cheaper to get it and then get free calls, or would it? ???
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #88 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 10:05am

Quote:

If this announcement is about VoIP then it would only apply to those who have broadband, I presently do not and therefore can't benefit from it Embarrassed

. If someone doesn't have broadband, it wouldn't be cheaper to get it and then get free calls, or would it? ???

You can get 2MB broadband for £15 per months with quite a few providers these days so I suppose it depends how much you use the internet at home.

Quite a few regulars on this site seem to have their broadband connection only in their offices from what I have observed from the times of day when they are most likely to make a post. Wink

I work in a home office so have to have a home broadband connection.

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andy9

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Re: 18866 increase connection charge!!!
Reply #89 - Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 11:05am

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I must say that after making a post in the MSE forum I find myself not at all comfortable with the groupie type aspects of that place where no criticism of Martin Lewis is allowed, where people write posts sycophantically so as to get "Thanks" from other posters and where Martin Lewis constantly locks any thread that he doesn't like the discussion in.

For the benefit of people that have not studied your words of wisdom there ..........

Quote:

I note these various unreasoned requests to claim 18866 are still the good guys. But given the unhealthily close business relationship between Martin Lewis, who runs this forum, and Finarea I would suspect that all of these posts are from people with a business connection with Finarea. I note there have been no such posts defending Finarea over in the SayNoto0870 discussion forum.

These were two early replies ...

Quote:

This assertion is both ludicrous and potentially libellous. What evidence do you have that Martin Lewis has shares or other interests in a Dutch/Swiss company? Or anybody else here?

and, followed by Martin Lewis himself
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=911375&postcount=27

Quote:

Dear NonGeographicalman

let me make something absolutely plain. There is no relationship between me and Fineria neither financial or in any other way. In fact i can get paid links to all major providers, the way the comparison services do, yet i choose to link to the cheapest provider as thats what this site is about and thats my ethical stance.

By doing this i forgo the tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds that the comparison sites make annually. There is absolutely no linkage in any way and i find the assertion offensive.

You can read thousands of posts on this forum with happy 18866 users. Though in fact i now plump for 1899 ahead.

If it were about anyone else i would have the post deleted for libel. However I will have it here to ensure no one thinks any different. However may i warn you before posting on my forum such untruths about anyone else - libel is an offence, you may be sued, as may i if you post such, so please be incredibly careful again.

You then made a series of further allegations that anybody that replied was connected to these companies, added veiled allegations of corruption at Ofcom, and other contentious matters.

Naturally, people reacted against your assertion that 18866 behaviour was a "scam", which you reinforced with "attempt to deceive", "Next time why not accidentally make a charge of £50 on my credit card and see if I notice?" "a secret price rise for 18866".

The company is not acting fraudulently. You may deplore the fact that the company did not send you an email, but it was published on their website. Futhermore, you are lying on MSE when you say you did not know for 12 days - you read it here sooner than that.

You are the person that first made focused personal attacks on anybody opposed to the degree of your rants. Some defended themselves and pointed out they had no connection, except as customer, with the Finarea companies.

I would imagine that Martin closed the matter as he did not wish to see the flame war continue that you sparked, or take the risk of you making further hyperbolic and untrue allegations.

People here that think I am exaggerating, or being too robust, should read your comments for themselves and form their own opinions.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=93386

I differed with Martin myself on mobile roaming to some extent - he thought the double callback arrangement I described a bit too complicated for anybody except phone nerds, even though it costs only 7p per minute.

People more aware of certain recent events at MSE might feel that there are good personal reasons for me to fail to show here any of the unreasoned sycophancy that you have alleged against people there.

But as far as upholding the right of people to read fair, balanced and independent discussion of various products without fear of personal attack on people whose point of view differs, I must say that I agree with Martin Lewis and not with you.

I must apologise to other readers here that it is inevitable that this post reads like a personal attack. I am merely pointing out exactly what NGM did on MSE, including an entirely unfounded allegation that Martin Lewis (who also sponsors this site, don't forget) is corrupt.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 5:11pm by andy9 »

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