SAYNOTO0870.COM - Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?

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Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Sep 6^th, 2005 at 11:02am

My land line is with BT, I use TalkTalk for reduced local calls, and Telesavers for reduced International calls. When looking at my Talk Talk bill, I noticed over %50 of the calls I have made through Telesavers (different access numbers) is less than 1 min. with a fee of .042 cost. These charges maybe the result of failed calls. The calls that do not connect. I want to know who gets the proceeds (.042 p)? TalkTalk or Telesavers? How can I reduce or eliminate the cost of these failed calls. Thank you.
David

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Dave

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #1 - Sep 6^th, 2005 at 1:43pm

According to the TalkTalk Tariff List there is a minimum charge of 5p (inc VAT).

This is where the 4.2p (exc VAT) comes from. I presume that the Telesavers numbers you were using were 08 or 09 numbers.

In that case, when they connect you are charged by your provider (TalkTalk, in this case). So when it answers "Welcome to Such and Such, please enter the destination number," the call starts metering because the 08/09 number has answered.

Unlike a 0-prefixed dial-through service, a prefix beginning 1, eg 18866, will charge you from when the destination number connects.

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cashless

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #2 - Sep 6^th, 2005 at 2:00pm

Thank you for your answer. Brings up another question. Telesavers advertises their rates all inclusive. Does this mean that, lets say, Talk Talk's cut of .05 p per min, is included in their rates (as they claim)? An example that is interesting is where I have a charge of .07 p for a 1 min call on my Talk Talk bill, while the number I called 08715515656 is an .08 p/min call advertised on Telesavers!

Thank you.
David

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Dave

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #3 - Sep 6^th, 2005 at 2:16pm

Quote:

Thank you for your answer. Brings up another question. Telesavers advertises their rates all inclusive. Does this mean that, lets say, Talk Talk's cut of .05 p per min, is included in their rates (as they claim)? An example that is interesting is where I have a charge of .07 p for a 1 min call on my Talk Talk bill, while the number I called 08715515656 is an .08 p/min call advertised on Telesavers!

Thank you.
David

Your figures quoted are wrong? When you say .05p/min I think you actually mean 5p/min which is the same as £0.05/min.

The 5p I was talking about isn't 5p/min, but the minimum cost of the call. That means that when you dial a number charged at (for example) 3p/min, a 30 second call will cost you 5p, 1 minute call will cost you 5p, a 1minute 30 second call will cost you 5p, but a 2 minute call will cost you 6p. Infact, a 1 second call will cost you 5p aswell!

The prices I quote are for the entire call and not per minute.

Don't forget, where your calls are itemised, the price (going from what you've said about all those 4.2p calls) is excluding VAT. So your 7p charge including VAT will be 8.23p (assuming that it is exactly 7p).

Also, the rate Telesavers quote is BT's rates, as they say, "other providers may vary." However, the TalkTalk Price List I linked to shows that this number costs 8p/min at all times with them.

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #4 - Sep 7^th, 2005 at 9:02pm

I think the original question was asking who gets the proceeds from the call.

I have an 0871 number, and my rebate is paid depending on how long someone spends on the call. I don't know what Telco they used to make the call, or whether it's a landline or mobile.

If they call for 1 second, then I get 1 seconds worth of money.

If I get a call lasting 5 minutes, then I get 5 minutes worth. I don't get a share in any minimum charge, or extra charges revenue.

The minimum charge would be applied to all numbers, whether mobile, landline, or NGN. TalkTalk, and other providers would argue that it's a charge they should apply, to make the admin of billing a call worthwhile (even though it's all computer anyway!)

Therefore whatever number you call, the NGN provider would only ask for the time spent on the call. Talk Talk would take the difference, if they have had to apply the minimum fee for the call.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #5 - Sep 24^th, 2005 at 9:35pm

Quote:

My land line is with BT, I use TalkTalk for reduced local calls, and Telesavers for reduced International calls. When looking at my Talk Talk bill, I noticed over %50 of the calls I have made through Telesavers (different access numbers) is less than 1 min. with a fee of .042 cost.

Beware of TalkTalk's billing as the little so and sos charge you for calls that you merely dial but that do not connect.

It is very hard to prove this unless you keep a book by your phone and carefully record every call you dial and whether it connects or not.

As a TalkTalk customer I have conclusive proof they do charge for non connected calls. For instance if I ring my Liechtenstein mobile number with www.riiiing.com to my mobile sitting here and hang up without it answering TalkTalk will charge me 5p connection every time. But if I make the same call using the BT 1280 override code then I will never be charged if the phone is not answered and I hang up before there is a message from the Liechtenstein network saying there was no reply.

Do not trust TalkTalk on billing as they absolutely cannot be trusted on charging for calls that do not connect and they seem to scam probably millions a year extra from customers in this way. As with them not sending a termination letter to any customer who ends CPS service with them they know that this is very hard to prove so that they can get away with it. Especially when you only have a regulator as utterly weak and useless as Ofcom to contend with. Wink

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Smasher

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #6 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 10:33pm

Interesting, because I found quite a few mobile calls which I didn't make but which were itemised on our bill. I phoned TalkTalk and was dismissed by one of their CS agents who insisted that I must have gone through to voicemail or an 'out of range' message, which is chargeable. As far as I know, the out of range message is NOT chargeable because when tried with BT, no charges appeared on the bill. But as you say, there is little a single customer can do Roll Eyes

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds?
Reply #7 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 10:46pm

Quote:

Interesting, because I found quite a few mobile calls which I didn't make but which were itemised on our bill. I phoned TalkTalk and was dismissed by one of their CS agents who insisted that I must have gone through to voicemail or an 'out of range' message, which is chargeable. As far as I know, the out of range message is NOT chargeable because when tried with BT, no charges appeared on the bill. But as you say, there is little a single customer can do Roll Eyes

A single customer should send an email to TalkTalk's offiical complaints address. Then when you get the predictably useless response from Sharon of customer services you should send it to TalkTalk's current CEO (not necessarily Charles Dunstone but can't remember the name) who does get named on the odd marketing letter.

Assuming another useless letter from CEO's office (although they may admit fault and offer compensation) you should then go to Otelo the telecommunications ombudsman. They will probably just get you a refund and some compensation. But you should then refer the generic issue of Ofcom inaccurate billing to Ofcom Director of Investigations Mr David Stewart - david.stewart@ofcom.org.uk Unlike the useless staff in the Ofcom Contact Centre the man actually seems to like his job and may offer to do something.

It is illegal to charge for mobile call price announcements from uk mobile phones when calling on a landline. TalkTalk get accurate billing information but then deliberately run the wrong charging algorithm, I suspect quite deliberately because it recoups their supposedly cheaper than BT call prices. Also they know their scamming is almost impossible to prove other than by someone at TalkTalk themselves blowing the whistle. It could only be proved if Ofcom were prepared to send an investigator to your home or get Ofcom staff to make trial calls on their home phones.

If you have ever dealt with the TalkTalk customer services department you will realise that this is a company with zero respect for its customers and maximum love of profit.

We should try to unmask the TalkTalk unconnected call overcharge scam because it is a very big one indeed.

Why am I with them still. Only for £5 of free mobile calls a month. I use 18154 for 0870 numbers and BT using 1280 for 0845s. That is those few I still have to call. I use 1899 for Geographic numbers.

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santana-mx3 Newbie Offline Posts: 6	Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds? Reply #8 - Sep 29^th, 2005 at 12:57pm Quote: I use 18154 for 0870 numbers and BT using 1280 for 0845s. Who does 18154? How much does it cost for 0870 numbers? Just wondering wither it is better than 18185.
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NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: Cheap Int calls: division of proceeds? Reply #9 - Sep 29^th, 2005 at 2:05pm Quote: Who does 18154? How much does it cost for 0870 numbers? Just wondering wither it is better than 18185. Well done on spotting my typo. I'm glad to see someone is reading my comments.
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