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BBC Watchdog now using 020 number (Read 108,244 times)
bbb_uk
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #45 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 4:18pm
 
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Have just e-mailed Kate Kerr with a request she have a look as to why its not happened. Thought I'd give her a chance before copying in all and sundry.
This is off-topic but the HomeOffice's website before it was redesigned did state the geographical number (I checked) but since the redesign someone has put the number back to 0870 probably because they weren't aware that it had changed.  I have emailed them over this.
Quote:
I have checked and you are quite right - the BBC' s policy is to say nothing when referring to the 0870 number .  We will not refer to it as "national rate" in the future.  However I have also been advised that we cannot give the price, as prices depend on the caller's network provider.
The problem is we can't convince them to display the price because OfCOM guidelines don't stipulate they have to, only ASA/CAP.  I am going to mention this (amongst others) in my reply to OfCOM's NTS consultation but I still haven't read it as yet!
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005 at 4:21pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #46 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 4:19pm
 
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NGM - I heard Michael Grade being interviewed on Radio 4 Talk Back (about 3 months ago) where he said that all profit made on phone calls from the public went to charity.


Michael Grade was of course talking of the 09 numbers used for things like Children in Need.  He either deliberately pretended to be unaware of or just possibly was unaware of the 087 revenue share.  If he was unaware he needs to be better briefed in future or consider resigning.

The 087 BBC call centre money seems to go either to Capita, who runs and staffs the BBC's call centres for them and/or possibly all to Cable & Wirlless (who terminate calls to these phone numbers) who I have been told by a senior source at Ofcom give the BBC massive discounts on all their outgoing phone call costs (also with Cable & Wireless) as an offset for the incoming revenue share.  So the 087 payments are a direct subsidy to the BBC's phone service operations by the public that the BBC should be paying for out of their own license fees pocket.  But they hope that because no cheque is written to the BBC and/or Capita that they can get away with it.  The BBC is quite shameless on 087 and refuses to acknowledge or act on the COI guidance for government contact centres (which I believe includes them) or the latest ASA Stop the Call Confusion guidance on the cost of calls from BT lines.

There is a feeble lie sometimes told by senior BBC propaganda merchants that the 0870 calls pay for the handful of BBC Freephone 0500 service but as there must be ten 0870 calls for every one free 05 calls this is clearly a blatant untruth.  For some reason a late night phone in on BBC Radio 5 live uses the freephone 0500 number but I can see no reason why these calls are free as the program appears no different from other BBC phone in shows that use an 0870 number.

Some time ago I added the geographic number for the BBC's Northern Ireland headquarters in Belfast from which switchboard it was possible to be connected, without any objection by the staff, to BBC Information in Belfast.

However since my listing of the BBC Information geographic number on this website, following which the number of calls to the BBC Belfast switchboard asking for BBC Information has clearly skyrocketed, staff on the BBC Belfast switchboard have been instructed to tell callers to ring the 0870 number.  Only if one objects and says one has been connected this way before on their geographic number do they grudgingly now agree to connect you to BBC Information.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #47 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:06pm
 
Alleluhah and praise the Lord.

Watchdog has just started up on the Beeb and they have announced their "new phone number" starting 020 8.  They have changed to the new number on their website but not yet withdrawn the blurb trying to exuse the use of the 0870 that was previously there:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog and then "Contact Us" link.

It may have taken a while but it seems that finally the Beeb is beginning to get the message.  I wonder if You & Yours will soon be quoting a geographic number for phone calls too.   Or even BBC Information Roll Eyes

Anhow this is a big about face by one part of the Beeb.  The water must have been starting to get much too hot for them.
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:25pm by N/A »  
 
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NFH
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #48 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:11pm
 
Watchdog on today's programme have announced a new phone number - 020 8535 1000.
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #49 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:34pm
 
It's great to see them use an 020 number, shame they can't display the number correctly!
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #50 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:41pm
 
BBC Watchdog caves in then.  Even they saw the absurdity of a consumer program with a premium number. Even though they didnt explain the significance of their "new number" and the rip-off on their old one.

I am getting the overall impression at the moment the tide is turning in our favour  ?
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bbb_uk
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #51 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:44pm
 
I believe we should send an email to Watchdog and congratulate them on switching to a geographical number and say how disappointed we are that other programmes/depts within the BBC dont follow their lead.  We could even cc relevant persons in on the email for their reference.

I'm sure NGM has the names of whom we could include. What do you think?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #52 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:47pm
 
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It's great to see them use an 020 number, shame they can't display the number correctly!


Looks like 020 must have worked out cheaper for them than 0500 or perhaps they have also started to get the message about 0500/0800 calls being a ripoff from mobile phones.

Hopefully this will be the Trojan Horse that lets us get 0870 kicked out of the rest of the Beeb  Undecided

After all if Watchdog can now get its elaborate call stats and sophisticated call handling on an 020 number then why not the rest of the Beeb.  Its not like they even quoted the 020 as a smaller print alternative to the 0870 number.  They have actually replaced it completely. Shocked

Well done WatchDog.  But shame on you for taking at least 15 months too long for getting the message. Angry
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:49pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #53 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 6:49pm
 
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BBC Watchdog caves in then.  Even they saw the absurdity of a consumer program with a premium number.

I would guess that after a few months when everyone has forgotten that Watchdog used to use an 0870 number themselves, Watchdog will run a story about the 0870 rip-off.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #54 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 7:08pm
 
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I'm sure NGM has the names of whom we could include. What do you think?


I just sent this to Watchdog's general Contact Us link and form which they assure us will be read by their team (if not answered).

Quote:
Congratulations to BBC Watchdog for finally getting the message about your ripoff 0870 number and for adopting an 020 phone number instead, which is covered by inclusive calling plans such as BT Option 3.

Now that you have taken this welcome step I hope you will also update your website to remove the blurb about high call costs only applicable to your old 0870 phone number.

Congratulations once again for being the first major BBC program to pressurise BBC management to force Cable & Wireless (the Beeb's phone supplier) to give you a normal 020 number instead of a covert premium rate 0870 number.

I hope this is only the first of a wave of such changes and look forward to the investigation by Watchdog of the extensive use of 0870 numbers by the BBC for most other contact phone numbers contrary to the advice of Ofcom and the Central Office of Information Guidance for government contact centres (which I consider the BBC to be amongst)


I was watching while also using the computer and haven't got my Tivo to wind back the credits.  Unfortunately their don't acknowledge any of their presenters or producers/directors/editors on their website, unlike most BBC programs.

One could do worse than to email:

michael.grade@bbc.co.uk
mark.thompson@bbc.co.uk
mike.southgate@bbc.co.uk
stephen.whittle@bbc.co.uk
tim.davie@bbc.co.uk;
jana.bennett@bbc.co.uk
jenny.abramsky@bbc.co.uk

welcoming this change and looking forward to seeing it adopted in all other BBC Contact Centres like BBC Information.  Oh and why not CC:-

richard.lapthorne@cw.com
steve.double@cw.com
tim.stephens@cw.com

and

paul.pindar@capita.co.uk
rodney.aldridge@capita.co.uk
paddy.doyle@capita.co.uk
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #55 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 7:12pm
 
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I would guess that after a few months when everyone has forgotten that Watchdog used to use an 0870 number themselves, Watchdog will run a story about the 0870 rip-off.


Yes perhaps as You & Yours feel able to cover the 0870 ripoff even though they have an 0870 number.

I think the x million 0870 calls a year to BBC Information would be a very good place to start.

A comparison with the appalling quality of the service offered by the Capita Belfast call centre or with the excellent in house duty offices run by Ch4 and Five could prove very interesting indeed.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #56 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 7:59pm
 
Here are the email addresses of the three BBC presenters of the program:-

paul.heiney@bbc.co.uk
nicky.campbell@bbc.co.uk
julia.bradbury@bbc.co.uk

Should you wish to congratulate them on making this change and/or ask when they are going to start investigating the rest of the 0870 scammers.

Curious that they made a big deal that their phone number had been changed but not why.  If I had been them I would have made a virtue of this happening and said it was in response to viewer feedback and new guidance on the use of these numbers by Ofcom.
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Dave
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #57 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 8:01pm
 
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...  For some reason a late night phone in on BBC Radio 5 live uses the freephone 0500 number but I can see no reason why these calls are free as the program appears no different from other BBC phone in shows that use an 0870 number.

Why is it that Radio 2 listeners can phone in on a free number, but Radio 1 listeners must pay 0870 rip-off rates?
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bbb_uk
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #58 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 9:00pm
 
NGM, are those email addresses you mentioned have something to do with Watchdog?

My plan is to email Watchdog and a few of their staff to congratulate them but mostly I wanted to ensure I cc'd some big-wig BBC bosses or other relevant head of depts in a hope that they will feel embarassed by Watchdog and possibly (I know I'm dreaming) switch all if not most to of their 0870's to geographicals like Watchdog have.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #59 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 9:00pm
 
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Why is it that Radio 2 listeners can phone in on a free number, but Radio 1 listeners must pay 0870 rip-off rates?


And why is it that You & Yours is not allocated 0500 numbers for all its phone in requirements given its active campaigning stance against 0870 and its generally aggresively pro consumer rights stance.

None of these things make any sense at all but I think Watchdog is the only BBC program receiving a lot of phone calls to have proved that using a geographic number is not an issue.  Of course the BBC's telephony supplier, Cable & Wireless, had already shown us it had a large stock of memorable but formerly redundant 020 numbers available following its mysterious ability to suddenly come up with an 020 number for the Met Police Casualty Bureau in July.  The issuing of this further major 020 number by C&W proves there is no technological obstacle to the use of geographic numbers for modern call centre operations.  The only reason they are not used a lot more is because they are less profitable/more expensive for the call centre operator.
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