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OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION (Read 389,840 times)
Dave
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #270 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 12:28pm
 
kk wrote on Nov 28th, 2005 at 10:13am:
Your comment may well be true, but an organization wishing to charge for 0870,  only needs to change to, or join, a telecom provider that offers that service to maintain the scam.  In effect it is the organisation who decides.  Your comment does have force, if all telecom providers refuse to offer revenue sharing on 0870.

A call may go through one or more telcos on its way from caller to destination. The telco the caller is with is the originating telco and the telco that provides the 0870 to the company in question is the terminating telco.

It is the originating telco who can 'opt out' and thereby provide an announcement and not the terminating telco. For a terminating telco to make the announcement they would have to know what rate the call was being charged at, which they wouldn't as they don't originate the call!
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Dave
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #271 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 11:54pm
 
Why is it that questions 1, 4 and 5 in the summary version are completely different to that in the full version? Are they not relevant to those who have read the full version? It seems that it is assumed that the industry will read the full version and general consumers will read the summary, although that does not excuse the fact that questions in the summary are not in the full version.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #272 - Dec 3rd, 2005 at 4:54pm
 
I am annoyed by, and totally opposed to, the practise of placing your call immediately on hold and inflicting music(?) on you.  I fail to understand why I should be expected to pay for this privilege when I could be being dealt with by an operator, they could at least call me back when they are able to talk.
Also annoyed by Fat cats who live off the cream, for which I am expected to pay, but are seemingly unproductive and cannot even give you a straight answer to the most innocuous question, they always procrastinate.
I strongly object to making an 087/4 call and finding that I am in another country's call centre where the language is a barrier.  An example of this was from last Thursday when I asked to speak to a named emoployee only to be assured that she did not work there.
What really annoys me is that I am expected to pay the phone bill for a company from whom I am expecting a service, I had always understood thak it was a criminal offence to "obtain money by false pretences" and surely, that it what it amounts to when you come down to it.  If a company is unable to build the phone bill cost into their prices they ought not to be in business.
If Mr. B.Liar (whoops Blair) and his cohorts do not see what they have allowed to happen they should bee booted into the dustbin of history.  Of course, he could employ a panel of experts from the LSE to explain to me where I have gone wrong with my thinking.  After all, it would cost no more than cancellation one aircraft for the Royal Air Force and we all know where he stands on that.  I am in my 70s and remain working, due in part to the legalised theft from pension funds perpetrated by Reisch Chancellor Brown (sorry done it again, exchequer).
Perhaps it might be possible to regain the initiative from politicians if THEY were paid on a "results only basis".  It might sharpen up their thinking and give the rest of us a bit of a break.
If a football team is not doing well there is always the cry "sack the manager" I wish that could apply to government also as it could liven up the thoughts of our elders and betters (?)
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drrdf2
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #273 - Dec 3rd, 2005 at 7:41pm
 
Hi biggles,

You are quite correct of course, and I think the root of the problem is that impeachment and treason (although still on the statute book) are never invoked any longer sadly. If politicians knew that if they commit treason (which most prime ministers and cabinet ministers now glibly do) they could actually face the death penalty and if impeachement even were implemented when deserved, such as for a certain leader's lies over weapons of mass destruction and related issues to justify joining the US in war against Iraq, you would find much more responsible and careful and less corrupt politicians would govern this country.

Come to think of it if there were more serious penalties enforced on the senior management of Ofcom for their failures we would probably have a public telephone system being run for the benefit of the citizen again in the UK also!
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« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2005 at 7:43pm by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #274 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 10:10am
 
Dave wrote on Nov 28th, 2005 at 11:54pm:
Why is it that questions 1, 4 and 5 in the summary version are completely different to that in the full version? Are they not relevant to those who have read the full version? It seems that it is assumed that the industry will read the full version and general consumers will read the summary, although that does not excuse the fact that questions in the summary are not in the full version.


Either way the questions asked are heavily loaded (eg asking is putting 0871 under ICSTIS regulation a good idea instead of asking shouldn't all revenue share numbers on 0844 and 0871 have to move over to 09 prefixes) so I would not recommend responding to them and instead simply saying what one thinks Ofcom should have proposed instead of the garbage they have come up with.  If you do respond to the questions please do it at the end of your response after you have stated your main views.  If you answer the questions at the beginning there is a high probability your response will never get read.

I am very suspiscious of all the many Name Withheld Yes, Yes, Yes responses now received and strongly suspect that some telco or NTS number vending merchant has been leaning heavily on everyone they know or employ to respond in this way.  For instance NTS number vending merchants can live with what is proposed (especially the replacement of 0871 with 0844 as an almost as profitable loophole) but could not live with a proposal to force all revenue share NTS use to move to 09.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #275 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 11:33am
 
Yes the withelds are suspicious, I have been mentioning this in AJR's thread "Read all...", since I made a point of reading each new 'batch' as AJR listed them.
It makes me think Ofcom will take no heed of any of us.  They will count up the 'Yes' answers and ignore commenets and just say "x% agree with us, so that is what we do" !!  End of story.
I'm just an old cynic as well.
By the way NonGeographicalMan have you done your report on that workshop at Ofcom? Love to see it sometime.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #276 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 11:48am
 
Ofcom will try to ignore us unless we continue to shout very loudly to our MPs (especially the 45 MPs who have now signed the Parliamentary anti 0870 motion at http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=28872%09%09%09%09%09%09%09&...) whilst they are considering the consultation responses.

It is obvious that the questions in the consultation were all spun so that it was impossible to answer No to them unless one thought very deeply about the matter.  However Ofcom left out many questions they should have asked (eg should all micro payment and/or revenue share services be compulsorily moved to 09 and should all remaining 0870 and 0845 numbers be immediately priced at 01/02 rates instead of years down the road) and thus their questions were not fair or unbiased.

My summary of the Ofcom Workshop meeting/seminar is about to appear but in many ways what that reveals will be more useful to our actions after the consultation closes than beforehand.  I must however disagree with Sonny's statement that "revenue share" and "micro payment" are in fact the same thing.  After considering matters more carefully it is obvious to me that a "micro payment" is what you are left with on any 0870 number that continues to charge above geographic rates and has a call price announcement once "revenue share" is abolished.  A "micro payment" clearly goes to the telco for phone services provided (including services given in turn to the call centre for "free") whereas a "revenue share" goes into the pocket of the actual final recipient of the call.  This is the basis on which the Patientline scamming is also being allowed to continue by Ofcom because there will only be a big "micro payment" (more like a "macro payment" is you ask me) to Patientline but no revenue share with the callee (hospital patient).
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2005 at 11:56am by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #277 - Dec 9th, 2005 at 2:31pm
 
Excellent response by the Premium Rate Association which is about one of the best examples of dam*ing with faint praise I have seen.

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/prem_rate.pdf

Still no sign of my response or BT's etc.
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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2005 at 2:33pm by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #278 - Dec 9th, 2005 at 2:44pm
 
And an utterly disgusting response as one would expect from Vodafone the biggest charger of and hider of all of inflated NTS call prices excluded from all of their normal geographic call packages.  Also a company that fullstop will not let any Pay as You Go customer know how much a phone call has cost them after the event and is also seemingly incapable of giving them accurate NTS call prices in advance.

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/Vodafone.pdf

Vodafone considers that Ofcom should control prices to 0845 and 0870 numbers from BT lines because BT has a dominant market position but does not seem to think that the same is true of its own excessive dominance of the uk mobile phone industry which sets a precedent for its smaller competitors Roll Eyes Shocked

Clearly Vodafone stands to lose a fortune on its current 084/7 ripoff if these proposals go through.
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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2005 at 2:45pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #279 - Dec 9th, 2005 at 11:11pm
 
Quote:
Excellent response by the Premium Rate Association which is about one of the best examples of dam*ing with faint praise I have seen.

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/prem_rate.pdf

Still no sign of my response or BT's etc.
Your response, together with that from BT and a few other corporates, is now shown on the Ofcom page.

I now have some reading matter this evening!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #280 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 1:26am
 
idb wrote on Dec 9th, 2005 at 11:11pm:
Your response, together with that from BT and a few other corporates, is now shown on the Ofcom page.

I now have some reading matter this evening!


I see these two private individuals have submitted 15 page responses which make interesting reading:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/shersby.pdf

and

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/af/bottom.pdf

Although neither of them can match BT's 42 page epic on the subject:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/af/BT.pdf

BT seems to have weakened its position against NTS though since its last consultation.  This seems odd given the strong pronouncements made against NTS abuse in the interim by the Head of BT Retail - Ian Livingston.

There are still responses that I know have been submitted which have not yet appeared.  Or if they have appeared perhaps they are under Name Withheld?  A lot of the Name Withhelds seem to arise because people have not made a formal declaration that their response may be published in full and not because people actually wanted any anonymity.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #281 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 1:39am
 
And this pathetic effort saying almost nothing is all the BBC could muster after their many years of deliberate and cynical 0870 viewer and listener abuse:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/af/BBC.pdf

It would seem the BBC are finally running scared and will I assume stay on their current 0870s when they are cut to only costing geographic call rate.
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idb
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #282 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 2:03am
 
Quote:
And this pathetic effort saying almost nothing is all the BBC could muster after their many years of deliberate and cynical 0870 viewer and listener abuse:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/af/BBC.pdf

It would seem the BBC are finally running scared and will I assume stay on their current 0870s when they are cut to only costing geographic call rate.
Yes, I am also somewhat underwhelmed by the Beeb's submission.
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idb
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #283 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 2:06am
 
Quote:
Although neither of them can match BT's 42 page epic on the subject:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/af/BT.pdf

BT seems to have weakened its position against NTS though since its last consultation.  This seems odd given the strong pronouncements made against NTS abuse in the interim by the Head of BT Retail - Ian Livingston.
This was also my conclusion after a very fast read of BT's response. I'll have a more thorough look at this document over the weekend.

It's also interesting looking at the responses from some of the NTS scamming industry. They really are worried about being deprived of revenue. Shame.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #284 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 2:45am
 
idb wrote on Dec 10th, 2005 at 2:06am:
It's also interesting looking at the responses from some of the NTS scamming industry. They really are worried about being deprived of revenue. Shame.


For instance this one from Neil Sherring of Windsor Telecom who writes to Clive Hillier and Gareth Davies as Dear Clive/Gareth and who has also been tipped off by the said gentlemen it would appear about our representation at the Ofcom meeting:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/WindsorTelecom.pdf

I have just emailed him to advise that all three representatives of SayNoto0870 at the Ofcom meeting seemed to be on the right of the political spectrum because we despise the distortion of the free market in telecoms prices causes by companies such as his.
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2005 at 12:27pm by Dave »  
 
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