SAYNOTO0870.COM - Universities

idb

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Universities
Oct 6^th, 2005 at 5:14pm

Not content with extorting money from people trying to contact their general practitioner, given the rising number of requests for alternative geographic numbers for universities, it seems that the scammers have found yet another opportunity for money-making, this time at the expense of students and their families. The difficulty and expense that callers from overseas may experience seems to be overlooked (note to scammers, universities really do have international students). Whilst the above is not a particular shock, what is surprising is the apparent silence from student union bodies. As a former student, albeit some time ago, I would have thought that this issue would be very important and one that such bodies could mount an effective campaign against. Perhaps apathy really has won.

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mikeinnc

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Ofcom - quis custodiet
ipsos custodes?

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Re: Universities
Reply #1 - Oct 7^th, 2005 at 1:32am

It is interesting that you posted this comment, idb. I had also been noticing the increasing number of University students who are asking for normal geographic numbers so that they can be contacted by their families. In fact, it was that very issue that started my association with this site when my son was attending University in the UK. I soon learned that even if I could get through to him on his 0870 number, it was more expensive than calling a mobile in the UK!!

It really is the most unbelieveable situation. As I have said before, when I explain to friends here in the US about this scam, they are amazed that there is not blood in the streets in Rip-Off Britain! No-one can imagine it - it just seems beyond comprehension. In fact, it is actually quite depressing that so much energy and passion has to be expended trying to correct this situation. It says a great deal about where British society seems to be heading. "Sod you jack - I'm alright" to paraphase a famous saying....... Embarrassed

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idb

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Re: Universities
Reply #2 - Oct 7^th, 2005 at 12:46pm

Quote:

It really is the most unbelieveable situation. As I have said before, when I explain to friends here in the US about this scam, they are amazed that there is not blood in the streets in Rip-Off Britain! No-one can imagine it - it just seems beyond comprehension. In fact, it is actually quite depressing that so much energy and passion has to be expended trying to correct this situation. It says a great deal about where British society seems to be heading. "Sod you jack - I'm alright" to paraphase a famous saying....... Embarrassed

Reading the comments from the smug-sounding Ofcom CE, Mr Carter relating to a voip service: "STEPHEN CARTER has a new gadget. Grinning, he picks up a handset that plugs neatly into his computer allowing him to make free internet calls. “You don’t have one?” he asks in disbelief ..." shows just how out of touch the UK regulator is. Of course, Mr Carter can make free or low cost calls to many destinations. However if he wants to call a bank, airline, GP, hotel, public body and the whole raft of other organizations in his own country that use NGNs, he will be paying a premium. He and the other Ofcom cronies just cannot grasp the problem with these numbers from the public perspective, and for people like us who reside overseas, we have significant problems and expense in performing simple and routine business with UK-based organizations that use rip-off numbers. Ofcom can't grasp this simple concept. It is time for Carter to go. He is ineffective. The whole Ofcom management team is clueless. From my understanding of world numbering systems, the United Kingdom is unique in adopting this charging model. I totally agree that it is wholly depressing that so much time and energy has been put into trying to argue the case for change yet Ofcom still wants to support a corrupt numbering plan.

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dorf

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I hate Qs on Premium NGNs

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Re: Universities
Reply #3 - Oct 7^th, 2005 at 6:32pm

idb, I think the root of it is not so much that the whole Ofcom team is clueless; it's more a matter of them being totally corrupt.

Also I do not agree that the issue is that "Ofcom still wants to support a corrupt numbering plan". In fact although it was their predecessor (Oftel), who was instrumental in the delineation of and was responsible for the final agreed implemented form of, the UK New Numbering Plan; when BT began surreptitiously to contravene this plan, Oftel and now Ofcom did nothing. As Ofcom in fact well know the simplest and quickest solution to all of these problems with abuses of NGNs is to enforce the UK New Numbering Plan. If the regulator had done this none of these problems would ever have occurred.

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« Last Edit: Oct 7^th, 2005 at 6:32pm by dorf »

Ofcom are completely ineffectual

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idb Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,499 Miami, Florida, United States Gender:	Re: Universities Reply #4 - Oct 8^th, 2005 at 3:42pm Source: http://forum.skype.com/viewtopic.php?t=36590&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 A case highlighted on a voip forum. The organizations introducing these numbers in such environments really are disgraceful. It's all about greed. Only in the UK would this happen.
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Universities
Reply #5 - Oct 9^th, 2005 at 10:26am

Quote:

idb, I think the root of it is not so much that the whole Ofcom team is clueless; it's more a matter of them being totally corrupt.

Yes Dorf that is precisely it. Or looking more fundamentally at the root cause that we have a corrupt New Labour government who appoints important New Labour cronies to well paid regulatory positions to do their bidding.

I believe Ofcom has been warned off imposing the correct solution on NGN at an early date by none other than various Labour government ministers who have call centres in major contracts with business to use such ripoff numbers, especially 0845 of course where action is to be much longer delayed.

Matt Peacock is normally the most confident sounding of people but I noticed how rattled he sounded the other day on You & Yours when he was interviewed having to defend the system against another interviewee Wink

, who was complaining that after 2 years all Ofcom had done was launch another consultation.

Mr Peacock is a decent sort of chap and as a former BBC reporter knows this disgraceful inaction by Ofcom cannot possibly be defended. But in order to keep his job he has to go along with defending the undefendable actions of those on the Ofcom Board. I do deplore however that Ofcom deliberately tried to deceive the public and the media by putting out a press release suggesting it was about to take immediate action on 0870 when this is anything but the case.

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« Last Edit: Oct 9^th, 2005 at 10:39am by N/A »

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joe65 Full Member Offline Posts: 143	Re: Universities Reply #6 - Oct 12^th, 2005 at 5:22pm Student Telephony is a recognised business area for network operators. Maybe it's got something to do with most Students (being young people) use mobiles, so they shouldn't mind paying mobile rates for calls from to / from their rooms. A captive audience, just like in hotels, but without a normal payphone in the lobby. .
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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Universities Reply #7 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 6:05pm Let's hope that the Ofcom's current proposals come to fruition as this will throw the whole university 0870 scam-racket up in the air. I would think that they will have to charge even more for calls/line rental.
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Dave

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Re: Universities
Reply #8 - Nov 3^rd, 2005 at 1:52pm

The FOI response from the University of Bristol is interesting. Thanks to idb for putting it in. You can find it here.
Quote:

2) Why did the University introduce 0870xxxx:

The government passed a ruling that all student should be provided with a room, that contained a data port, and a telephone, once this ruling was passed, telephone providers decided that this was a good scheme, ACC were the telephone company responsible for the introduction of telephone/data service within Bristol University,
As time went on, ACC found it difficult to collect revenue for this service, and so finally went into liquidation, at this point Bristol University then found that it had an obligation to provide services, but the cost to do so as a higher education facility would have been prohibitive, and so the telephone consultants of the day, were asked to find an alternative method, and so the Dog N Bone service was introduced. This means that students no longer receive bills in arrears, which was one of the main criticisms from the student body about the previous operators.

The purpose of the 0870 numbers is to help cover the costs of providing the telephone service to the student community. At this point, each student has a telephone, that we do not charge rental for, free internal calls around the University. Plus the University maintains this service and is free to students, with very competitive rates for international calls. Plus this year the introduction of call plans, which will also make the student calls cheaper.

So it's the government that says all student accommodation must have a telephone.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Universities
Reply #9 - Nov 3^rd, 2005 at 2:54pm

Quote:

The FOI response from the University of Bristol is interesting. Thanks to idb for putting it in. You can find it here.
So it's the government that says all student accommodation must have a telephone.

They don't seem to mention the very uncompetitive rates of up to £4.50 an hour if a student's mum or dad want to call them.

Do you suppose one of the reasons that the BT rate for 0870 drops all the way down to 1.5p per minute at the weekend is because of the number of students who are on 0870 numbers and who have parents etc who want to make longish calls to them at the weekend?

Whereas many 0870 call centres are closed for some/all of the weekend.

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Dave

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Re: Universities
Reply #10 - Nov 3^rd, 2005 at 6:35pm

Quote:

Let's hope that the Ofcom's current proposals come to fruition as this will throw the whole university 0870 scam-racket up in the air. I would think that they will have to charge even more for calls/line rental.

Maybe they will move to 070 numbers. As hospital systems for patients are on the list of "acceptable uses" for these numbers, I'm sure that these telcos can argue that this is a similar use.

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