If you look on this web site and on the internet generally you will find specific statements of up to 4 p per minute being paid for 0870 numbers. My research has proven that the scam operators with the highest call volumes are receiving up to almost 4.5 p per minute in transfer payments for 0870 numbers as terminating subscribers (i.e. Premiums). With other NGNs such as 0871 and 070 PNS the Premiums are much higher.

Don't forget that the main revenue is made from call queuing with all of these numbers (which is of course prohibited with overt Premium numbers in the NTNP). That is the key to all of this - most of the revenue is generated from holding callers on line whilst the clock ticks away!

Thankyou dorf,
               I appreciate your point about the queuing, 'tho' it's the other end I'm concerned with at the moment.
Roughly,   How much is it reasonabley justified for an Originating operator to charge for calling 0870  ?

   This might be best considered  relative to their charge to call normal geographic numbers.
  Simplistically one might consider that to be the difference in cost they must transfer on,  anything more being [b]extra[/b] profit.

  Are these transfer payments fixed, or depending on how much the originating operator charges ?

  According to the summarised explanation on the OfCom website, all the profit should be transferred to the terminator,   but is / how is that ensured.

Would your indication of 4.5 p/min. suggest that to be a reasonable amount over and above their normal charge ?    

I'm sure it'll be much me more complicated than that, but I need to start getting a grasp on this somewhere.

Reasonably, nothing more than a geo call.  You don't expect a freephone number, but you do expect the call to cost the same as phoning your friends and relatives in this country.

The cost of the 0870 is not set by the terminating operator, but your own telecom company.  The terminating operator only has control over which telecom company to use for 0870, which would give them the best value for money, and service.

Almost all numbers in the 0870 range cost the same for the caller, irrespective of which company the terminating operator uses, and how much rebate they receive.

The terminating operator does however have a choice whether to use either a freephone number, a geo number, an 0845 number, 0871, or a premium rate 090 number, which are charged to the customer at different rates to 0870 numbers, and provide varying revenue or charges for the terminating operator.

Hi Joe65,

As Shiggaddi states - the reality is NOTHING. As I have observed previously what this is really about is the difference between a normal telephone call (one subscriber calling another) and a subscriber making a telephone call to a number providing a true added-value service, which the caller is prepared to pay for by a transfer of Premiums. (Premium means a cost loading on the call over and above a normal call charge.) This was the original conception and definition of a Premium number. And all Premium numbers were supposed to have been moved to 09 under the authority of the New Telephone Numbering Plan and Structure. Queuing was prohibited with all Premium (revenue-generating) numbers. Under this definition 08 numbers are being used as Premium numbers.

That is the purpose of these abuses with NTS, so that 08 numbers could be used as Premium numbers, not providing any added-value service, usually not using the additional benefits which NTS was originally intended to provide, which were really only normal telephone calls but with queuing allowed; deceving most consumers who believed that "National" and "Local" meant that these calls cost the same as they would pay for normal calls with their provider.

All calls to 08 numbers should be normal telephone calls. That is precisely why even Ofcom has suggested that so-called Adult Services now increasingly using 08 numbers should be forced to 09. They are not normal calls, and do provide clearly what some believe to be an added-value service, although many may not agree, me included. Normal telephone calls should cost normal prices. That is the only reasonable position. I must repeat ad nauseum that the main attraction of these 08 abuses as Premium numbers is that queuing is allowed!

I've only found T-Mobile charging 40p/min  and this is only on their PayAsYouGo tarrif, which is normally 30p/min all the time (assuming low usage).
So the differential is only 10p/min making their particular 40p/min to 0870s not as bad as it looks & the profiteering (however disgraceful) only consistent with other operators that charge just 10p/minute on a contract with inclusive minutes.

T-Mobil's rate to 0870 is so high as their PAYG tarrif is very expensive anyway.

Anyone know of an operator charging 40p on an inclusive minutes contract ?