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University of Derby (Read 61,565 times)
idb
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #45 - Oct 19th, 2005 at 2:04pm
 
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Well I emailed a request for the freedom of information officers contact details and they replied asking me to supply them with mt personal details and course details ect. I havent replied just yet I was just waiting to see what was said here
Personal details such as name, address and preferred method of communication are a reasonable request. Course details are probably irrelevant unless this aspect has a direct bearing on the request. As I said earlier, I made three requests yesterday and have already received two acknowledgements from the institutions. I am not a student nor am I the parent of a student and I also live in the United States. None of this excludes me being able to make a FOI request. I repeat, you do not have to be a student in order to make this FOI request.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #46 - Oct 19th, 2005 at 2:05pm
 
They can't ask what course you are on.

Even journalists can approach any body covered by the FOI act to ask any questions they feel like asking.  So don't be fobbed off by this response.  I expect it is their way of trying to intimidate students out of asking questions.

Anyhow your answer is you are not on a course but you want to know this information because you regularly have to call one of their phone numbers.  So you have an ongoing relationship with the university
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« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2005 at 2:06pm by N/A »  
 
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onesexylady
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #47 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 9:38am
 
I contacted them and they told me to write to a lady who they said is the Information Co-ordinator for the University. They didn't seem to know who exactly the FOI act officer is or even if they have one. Do you think I should write to her then would she be the right person? They didn't give me any email address which I would prefer but I'm just thinking it's all going to take longer if it's not the right person. If anyone has any suggestions of exactly what to say to them it would help as I'm really not very good at this kind of thing but I do think it needs to be done
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #48 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 10:06am
 
I called the phone number listed here on the FOI part of the Universtity's website:-

http://www.derby.ac.uk/foi.html

They tell me the FOI Officer is Linda Swanson but she only works part time on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings (i.e. in the office only 30% of the week).

Her phone number during these times is 01332 591219 and her email address is linda.swanson@derby.ac.uk

I suspect its easiest to send an email as if she becomes confused about what you want she can always forward a copy to their telecoms manager.  Perhaps it might help to suggest the telecoms manager is the person she needs to forward your request on to but with Ms Swanson also reminding him this is an FOI request so has to be answered fully on that basis.

If they still seem to be confused you could always email the Vice Chancellor Professor John Coyne ( john.coyne@derby.ac.uk or see http://www.derby.ac.uk/VCWelcome.html ) who is bound to have the suitable seniority to make sure the request goes to the right place.  However as your daughter is a student I suspect its best to take the softly softly approach and stick with the FOI lady unless you run into a real road block.

I would quote to this lady the fact that an 0870 number for making a call to your dughter costs you £4.50 per hour to call in the daytime compared to 3p if you knew your daughter's geographic number and also quote the www.1899.co.uk website as proof.

I think the key thing though is to keep this as your complaint, as its your phone bill that is affected, and not your daughters.  Universities usually have to be deferential and obsequious to parents but rather less so to the students.
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2005 at 10:06am by N/A »  
 
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jrawle
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #49 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 2:58pm
 
I'm not convinced there's much point submitting a FOI request for this information, unless it's just to inconvenience the university a bit and give their admin staff something to do.

The Halls at Derby are run by a private company with charitable status, and the phones are provided by an external contractor. Whatever the rights or wrongs of it, the 0870 revenue will be factored into the economies of running the phone system. Therefore they will tell you that it is commercially sensitive information that won't be released under the FOI act.

Even if they give you the number, I'm pretty certain it'll be 01332 05, which can't be dialled from most phones anyway.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #50 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 3:07pm
 
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Even if they give you the number, I'm pretty certain it'll be 01332 05, which can't be dialled from most phones anyway.

But it can be dialled on NTL can't it?  Which this lady is on.

Also there is a point in the FOI request as if enough people make such a request the university will realise it is in the wrong and has to renegotiate the contract so a geographic number is made available.

Your argument that its factored into the cost by the company is a bit like saying Sky or NatWest shouldn't have to give me a geographic number as it might impinge on their chairman's annual bonus.

Since a run around seems to be being given here I would email the vice chancellor to draw the appalling ripoff for students relatives to his attention.  The fact is they usually have no idea the call cost difference can be as stark as 0p per hour for geographic versus £4.50 per hour for 0870.  This is because the whole sale's pitch to the university will have been a con claiming that 0870 was "national rate"!  If the Vice Chancellor gets to hear about it he might fire the telecoms manager and get the contract renegotiated.

One can't just roll over and take it as you seem prepared to do here.
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onesexylady
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #51 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 3:31pm
 
I will contact them about it as I think the more people complain they might start to take notice even though it doesnt seem it's going to help us this year anyway.

I am on NTL but it seems I cannot ring from my phone to the number that it most likely is which is 01132 05**** NTL have probably now blocked it like BT have done.

nongeographicalman

Thankyou very much for finding that information for me. The costs you quoted there are they excluding vat aswell? as NTL always add the vat after the calls cost so if so it's even more.

I'm out of work through sickness at the moment so calling the 0870 no. would effect me a fair bit and it's an all on struggle for my daughter to pay her halls fees and all the extras without having to be worrying about anything else. I'm a single parent too so theres only us.

It really concerns me that sometimes students will have problems and contact is important, it just makes things more difficult
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2005 at 3:33pm by onesexylady »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #52 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 4:02pm
 
Quote:
nongeographicalman

Thankyou very much for finding that information for me. The costs you quoted there are they excluding vat aswell? as NTL always add the vat after the calls cost so if so it's even more.

I'm out of work through sickness at the moment so calling the 0870 no. would effect me a fair bit and it's an all on struggle for my daughter to pay her halls fees and all the extras without having to be worrying about anything else. I'm a single parent too so theres only us.


The call costs I quoted are for BT Option 1 in the weekday daytime who charge 7.51p per minute to 0870.  But many other networks like NTL charge more and other companies are allowed to charge up to 10p per minute to 0870 (£6.00 per hour versus 3p or 0p Shocked)  The BT price of 7.51p per minute or £4.50 per hour for 0870 weekday peak includes VAT.

If you register with http://www.18185.co.uk (part of the same Finarea stable of telecoms brands as 1899) you can call 0870 for 4p per minute plus 4p initial connection at all times but this is only any help if you need to call your daughter in the weekday peak.  As I expect you know BT goes down to charging 1.5p per minute for 0870 at the weekends (90p per hour) and 4.5p per minute (£2.70 per hour) in the weekday evenings.

The only way round it would be to get your daughter a Three contract mobile on the deal offered on this site ( http://www.e2save.com/mobile/phones/disphandset.php?network=three&handset=6630cl ) with 500 minutes of cross network minutes and get her to call you using some of these 12.5 hours a months of calls to any uk landline or mobile at any time.  It still costs £60 for a year's contract for one of these mobiles though.  But you do get more than that value in calls and a free high quality mobile.

Or what about using either Voice over IP with Skype computer to computer or Yahoo or Microsoft Messenger Voice Chat services.  You probably have a friend somehwhere who knows about this technical stuff and your daughter must know some people at university who can  get Skype etc working on her computer.  Or did you say the Voice over IP ports were blocked by the university?
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #53 - Oct 21st, 2005 at 11:32pm
 
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Also there is a point in the FOI request as if enough people make such a request the university will realise it is in the wrong and has to renegotiate the contract so a geographic number is made available.

Your argument that its factored into the cost by the company is a bit like saying Sky or NatWest shouldn't have to give me a geographic number as it might impinge on their chairman's annual bonus.

I don't think it's quite the same situation as big companies who use these numbers for their existing customers who have already paid considerable sums. Many of the halls phone systems have no line rental, so the providers would argue that the 0870 revenue makes up for this. However, I'm sure that in fact the price of the hall fees is higher to pay for the phone (I think Derby has a non-returnable "booking fee" - well, this is what you get when a private company runs the accommodation).

Anyway, I wasn't trying to claim that the use of 0870 was valid. I was just guessing what the likely response from the university will be. Ever since the FOI Act came into force, whenever someone wants a number, everyone on this site is so quick to say "FOI", but many of the organisations have cited commercial sensitivity to justify not revealing the numbers.

You are quite right about the FOI being one way to make it clear to the university that people are dissatisfied by the 0870 numbers. E-mailing the VC is also a good idea. However, as with companies, the university probably won't care less about its "customers". Most universities use 0870 numbers anyway, so what's the alternative? Live out of halls, study abroad, or go for a modern apprenticeship, it would seem!  Wink


onesexylady: About the assumed 05xxxx number, perhaps it won't ring from an NTL line because the last four digits are invalid. I suggest you try dialling some random numbers across the whole range and see if you can get through. On Monday I'll try another number and if I get through, give the number to you. (I do pity the people I call at random, but two calls won't hurt!) Unfortunately, I don't think I know anyone with a domestic NTL line who I can ask to try things for me any more.
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #54 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 8:59am
 
Onesexylady. Do you and your daughter by any chance have PAYG mobiles.If so what network are you on.I might be able suggest a way of making cheaper 0870 calls,or cheaper calls to your daughter.
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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2005 at 9:00am by bigjohn »  

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Re: University of Derby
Reply #55 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:01pm
 
Quote:
It's the first number. I just tried it with a random number and got a random person in Derby.

Are you sure it was someone at the university? Can you tell us what the 3rd digit was, this may be the one we're after. Undecided

Quote:
onesexylady: About the assumed 05xxxx number, perhaps it won't ring from an NTL line because the last four digits are invalid. I suggest you try dialling some random numbers across the whole range and see if you can get through. ...

onesexylady, have you tried all combinations? Ie, 05#xxx with # as 0 through to 9 and xxx as last 3 digits of extension and last 3 digits of 0870? That gives 20 combinations.

I suggest you try the 3rd digit jrawle got through on.
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #56 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:17pm
 
Well its a 4 digit internal number not 3 like I originally thought so thats all I put through the 01332 05**** so I didn't see any other way of trying it. I tried all the other numbers they all went through with 1899 but her phone didnt ring in her room so it couldn't be them. With the the 05 one just 1899 said this is an invalid number but if I ring without 1899 it just rings. I just assumed NTL had blocked it

We don't have PAYG mobiles either but I'll look into the skype thing though
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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:18pm by onesexylady »  
 
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #57 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:37pm
 
I can't quite remember what I dialled (which is stupid really!) although I think it probably started with 5 as there are extensions starting with that number in Leicester. There won't be as many as 9999 lines, so it's possible the first digit will be different... or maybe even all the digits.

I did ask the person who answered whether they were at Derby Uni and they said yes, although I suppose they could be living in a private house. I'll try again on Monday and this time record the number I dial!

With BT, it beeps and the lady says the number has not been recognised before I've even had chance to dial the full number! Perhaps the continuous ringing means you have the wrong room.
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onesexylady
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #58 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:38pm
 
GUESS WHAT! I just rang again without 1899 and its her number she picked it up she must have been out when I called it the other day without 1899 but anyway it still tells me I have rang an invalid number if I ring using 1899 actually I have to ring 0808 1 708 708 because I'm NTL why do you think I can't use that? I'm going to look into the other cheap pre dial places to see if they actually connect to hers but it's the first one I have been refused with 1899

Do you really think it's too risky adding that number to my 1899 bill so she can ring out using it?

I'm also going to email 1899 to ask why they are not allowing calls through that number

How much will I be paying to call that number now without the 1899 service I'm not totally sure if it's NTL or BT line there that lines not a local line to me either but it's got to be better than 0870 Smiley
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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:45pm by onesexylady »  
 
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Re: University of Derby
Reply #59 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 2:52pm
 
Quote:
GUESS WHAT! I just rang again without 1899 and its her number she picked it up she must have been out when I called it the other day

That's great!! Cheesy
How good are we?!  Grin
Do the last few digits match to the extension or 0870?
What about the third digit? Does this have any connection to the extension/0870? *** out the last few digits, but please let us know so we can add to the database.

Quote:
How much will I be paying to call that number now without the 1899 service I'm not totally sure if it's NTL or BT line there that lines not a local line to me either but it's got to be better than 0870 Smiley

Who provides the line is irrelevant. It is a geographical number, so whatever NTL charge you to call 01/02 numbers.
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