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Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong (Read 41,369 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #15 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 1:08am
 
Quote:
I'm a barman, and all day I have to put up with people whinging and complaining, and it really makes me laugh to think that some people are never happy unless they're whinging.


What you call whingeing the rest of us call intelligent analysis and comment.  But obviously I realise that is something that a Millwall supporter would find it rather hard to understand.

When you guys are unhappy rather than making intelligent and perceptive remarks (what you call whingeing) a Millwall supporter simply punches the person he is unhappy with in the face.

Perhaps if we can summarise by saying that this forum is a place for intelligent, analytical and numerate people and not for Milwall fans then you will see why you have to resort to insulting the forum's members in order to cope.
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Smasher
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #16 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 10:05am
 
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Honestly, I'm proud you think that I'm the CEO of Ofcom, but truth be told, I'm 19. So if I can hit CEO level at 19 then I've done pretty well.

Tbh, I think your conspiracy theories are quite hilarious. You are not that important. You are just the sort of people who are never happy unless you are whinging.

So what if you have to pay 40p a minute to donate. So what? It only takes a minute to donate money over one of those helplines.

I'm a barman, and all day I have to put up with people whinging and complaining, and it really makes me laugh to think that some people are never happy unless they're whinging.

But anyway, I'm too busy for this. I've got a regulatory body to run.  Wink


You are wrong; forum members have managed to change the number that the government issues - is this not significant?  And as such it is not whinging.  If it was whinging then why would the government have taken notice of us? 

Your shallow mind fails to see the shame in operating a charity donation line costing 40ppm from a mobile - would you be happy to phone that number, hold in a queue for 10 mins and then a further 3-4 mins while your credit card details are taken?  This would cost well over £5 at least, none of which would go towards the charity.  Is this justifiable?  Use your common sense before answering that one, if you have any at all.  The fact that you're a barman shows that you can't be worth much more than pulling levers and handing drinks and packets of crisps over the counter.  Do you seriously think that someone of your calibre can just waltz on here and completely upheave our entire campaign?

The fact that you laugh at other peoples' misfortunes when they have the impression that you are there to talk to is absolutely disgusting.  And you think you have the authority to tell this forum's members what is and isn't right. 

May I ask if you regularly phone 0870 and 0845 numbers?  If so, do you have any qualms about the excessive costs involved?
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Mr_Asaboa
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #17 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 10:54am
 
NGM and Smasher you have done yourselves great discredit by generalising to such a degree that you have shown what utter arses you are being to me.

Firstly yes I'm a Millwall supporter. I can honestly say I've never punched anyone in the face. To say that all Millwall supporters are violent shows how much you buy into media bullsh1t.

Also to say that as a barman all I'm good for is pulling levers and selling crisps equally is ludacrous. I'm doing my degree at the moment and this is my part time job. Even if it was my full time job, so what? What's my job got to do with my intelligence? Nothing.

There is some evidence of "intelligent analysis and comment" but there is too much of what I call "whinging". Like I say you have become so obsessed with the 0850 0870 numbers that even when watching news about disasters you notice the number more than the news itself. Which is tragic.

Smasher, you talk about my calibre, and yet you're the one stooping low to insult me because I have a part time job.

I was never tyring to upheave this campaign. More, I was trying to provoke some discussion, which I have done in part. This is a forum, I disagree with some of what you were saying so I posted it. Is this not what this forum is for? Discussion? Or is for mutual back-slapping and agreement. You've posted this on the world wide web. If you did not want regular people coming on who may disagree with some of what you are saying you should perhaps not have it here. Capiche?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #18 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 11:03am
 
Quote:
Like I say you have become so obsessed with the 0850 0870 numbers that even when watching news about disasters you notice the number more than the news itself. Which is tragic.


Well you don't even know that its 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 and not 0850, that surely says it all about your shallow knowledge of this topic.

And your comments about us not showing concern about the earthquake are utterly ridiculous as this is not a general news forum so we stick to discussing the use of these numbers here at any time.  It may well be that forum members here are also involved in news forums or donate to charities to deal with disasters like this as a separate matter.  But our only relevant discussion of the disaster here is whether the telephone number used is making mobile phone companies rich instead of ensuring that all the money from the person calling is going to the disaster.

By the way I assume by whinging you meant whingeing or wining but I clearly wouldn't expect someone like you to know how to spell more complicated words.
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Smasher
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #19 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 12:16pm
 
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NGM and Smasher you have done yourselves great discredit by generalising to such a degree that you have shown what utter arses you are being to me.


We have done no discredit, but simply stated the obvious about you.  You haven't exactly been supportive of this campaign so what do you expect from the members?

Quote:
Firstly yes I'm a Millwall supporter. I can honestly say I've never punched anyone in the face. To say that all Millwall supporters are violent shows how much you buy into media bullsh1t.


If as you claim it wasn't true then the relevant paper/news agency would have been in court for libel charges.  This hasn't happened as yet, therefore, their claims shall be assumed as correct.  I would point out that some of your languauge is inappropriate for this forum.

Quote:
Also to say that as a barman all I'm good for is pulling levers and selling crisps equally is ludacrous. I'm doing my degree at the moment and this is my part time job. Even if it was my full time job, so what? What's my job got to do with my intelligence? Nothing.


If you could even spell ludicrous I may have had an ounce of sympathy for you, but I don't.  The fact you're doing a degree at the moment means nothing - you could be studying 'Golf' or 'Turf Studies' for all we know. 

Do you not realise what a job has to do with intelligence, i.e. if you're thick you work in a blue collar job (or a bar Cheesy) and if you're brainy, you have a better-paid managerial/research post)?  I don't think I'll bother to explain as you clearly can't and won't see this logically. 


Quote:
There is some evidence of "intelligent analysis and comment" but there is too much of what I call "whinging". Like I say you have become so obsessed with the 0850 0870 numbers that even when watching news about disasters you notice the number more than the news itself. Which is tragic.


Like NGM has pointed out, there is no such thing as an 0850 number Roll Eyes and as for the news coverage, we were interested in stopping C&W making money from this terrible tragedy and stopping the public paying extortionate rates from their mobiles.  Is this right or wrong?  Because of our work the next time (God forbid) there is some sort of incident in this country, a freephone and geo number will be issued.  Is that action something you approve of? ??? 


Quote:
Smasher, you talk about my calibre, and yet you're the one stooping low to insult me because I have a part time job.


I didn't remark at the sole fact that you had a job because that alone is simply shocking.  I commented that as a bartender, you couldn't be expected to comprehend the level of discussion on this forum.

Quote:
I was never tyring to upheave this campaign. More, I was trying to provoke some discussion, which I have done in part. This is a forum, I disagree with some of what you were saying so I posted it. Is this not what this forum is for? Discussion? Or is for mutual back-slapping and agreement. You've posted this on the world wide web. If you did not want regular people coming on who may disagree with some of what you are saying you should perhaps not have it here. Capiche?


You were never trying to upheave this campaign?? See below Roll Eyes

Quote:
What's your problem with Ofcom?! Basically, they're here to help people like you and they're the ones who first suggested a consultation into the misuse of 087 and 084 numbers. You need to stop being so demanding, be a little more reasonable and stop expecting the Earth.

Serial complainers like you need to have a little think about how the system is likely to work. Have alittle think about it.


I think you'll find that this comment was aimed at the forum members who were remarking about OfCOM's complacency at sorting out this NGN scam.  How is this called 'being supportive'?? ??? Roll Eyes
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Mr_Asaboa
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #20 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 1:16pm
 
OK - to answer some points:

Firstly, there was never any news coverage that said ALL Millwall supporters were hooligans. You or NGM just assumed that I was some kind of thug just because I am to support Millwall. We have a bad element, but that doesn't mean we are all thugs.

Secondly, whilst I am not going to go into what sort of degree I'm doing (frankly it's none of your business and you couldn't care less) I was merely illustrating that I'm not "just" a barman. I think that your generalisations of people's intelligence based on their jobs is a bit wide of the mark tbh.

I do apologise for some of my language, that's a fair point tbh.

True, I haven't been supportive of this campaign. Also, I did knowthat it was 084 or and 087 numbers, typing 0850 was just a silly mistake. And yes, you can pick me up on my spelling. Well done. My spelling is generally decent (unlike your member who couldn't even spell Ofcom) but I don't tend to take the time to think about my spelling when frequenting message forums. Sorry. Sad

To be fair, I can now see the point you guys were making about the emergency helpline/donation line thing. I still wholly disagree with comments about wishing was Ofcom, I think that sort of sentiment is pathetic. But to be fair now that you've explained it a bit more I can see how/why you were angry about the use of 0870 numbers during the appeals.

I can comprehend the level of discussion by the way. Not agreeing 100% with what you say does not mean I don't understand.

Finally, I really wasn't trying to upheave this campaign. I'm not so foolish as to think that I could come up with anything so porfound as to make people change their minds. I just disagree with *some* of things people have said. I do see your points (or some of them at least) but some of things you've said I disagreed with. Like I say, particularly the Ofcom July 7th comments.
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Mr_Asaboa
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #21 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 1:17pm
 
Quote:
OK - to answer some points:

To be fair, I can now see the point you guys were making about the emergency helpline/donation line thing. I still wholly disagree with comments about wishing was Ofcom, I think that sort of sentiment is pathetic. But to be fair now that you've explained it a bit more I can see how/why you were angry about the use of 0870 numbers during the appeals.

I messed that up a bit, it's meant to read:

To be fair, I can now see the point you guys were making about the emergency helpline/donation line thing. I still wholly disagree with comments about wishing the July 7th attacks were on Ofcom, I think that sort of sentiment is pathetic. But to be fair now that you've explained it a bit more I can see how/why you were angry about the use of 0870 numbers during the appeals.

Sorry.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #22 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 1:33pm
 
Quote:
I messed that up a bit, it's meant to read:

To be fair, I can now see the point you guys were making about the emergency helpline/donation line thing. I still wholly disagree with comments about wishing the July 7th attacks were on Ofcom, I think that sort of sentiment is pathetic. But to be fair now that you've explained it a bit more I can see how/why you were angry about the use of 0870 numbers during the appeals.


Mr Asaboa you can use the Modify button to correct errors in what you have already posted in the forum.  As there is no spell check we all make such errors.

I think Smasher was out of order suggesting all Blue Collar workers were idiots who effectively couldn't understand the 087and 084 call issues.  These issues are pretty basic really if anyone cares to understand them and do not require one to be Mastermind.

The issue is particlarly that many people now have inclusive calling plans with CPS for all calls starting 01 and 02 from people like www.tele2.co.uk at only £7.50 per month but these 087/4 calls are excluded from the allowances and charged at a higher price than even BT charges by people like the Post Office.  So in a family household if you make 20 minutes of calls a day to 0870 fnumbers or 22 working days in the month that's 22 x £1.50 so £33 of calls and in a BT quarterly billing quarter £99.  So that's £396 a year of calls to 087/4 numbers that are just normal landline numbers of customer service departments.  So do you now really think people on pensions and low incomes of only £5,000 to £10,000 can afford this extra cost of these calls when they thought if they paid £7.50 a month that all their uk calls to uk landlines would be covered.  Ditto why does Vodafone not even reveal the price of calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers from Pay as You Go mobile phones on their website.

The reference to Ofcom and the bomb business was unfortunate, intemperate, unwise, irrational etc like some of your own comments.  The person who made the comment did so in a rash moment when they were trying to make another point. That point is that Ofcom cost the taxpayer a load of money but never do anything to protect ordinary uk phone users from being exploited.

Mr Asaboa I think being a 19 year old you may have started off trying to see if you could wind us up but I'm sure if you have some serious points about 084/7 ripoff numbers to make that we will be very happy to continue to discuss them with you.
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Smasher
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #23 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 2:32pm
 
I'd point out that my comment about the bartenders was a 'heat of the moment' thing and it isn't meant as an insult - but the way that Mr Asaboa seemed to miss the point completely about the whole NGN issue and the emergency helpline/charity donation line, made me a bit frustrated and I suppose I coupled that up with the job and just typed it there and then.  Sorry, no insult intended Wink  As a gesture of good will I have placed a high quality joke about bartenders at the foot of this post (notable sarcasm intended about the high quality).

But I am glad you seem to understand more of the points about the numbers.  If you do dial these numbers, I'd suggest looking at your phone bill and comparing those calls with geograpical calls of equal or greater duration and see how much more it costs.

--

A Hindu, a Jew and a Bishop walk into a bar...
The bartender says, "What is this, a joke?" Grin
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idb
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #24 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 2:38pm
 
I was going to avoid contributing to this thread, but as it seems to have developed into an unnecessary 'slanging match', I thought I'd make a comment or two for what they are worth. I actually believe that Mr Asaboa has been treated somewhat unfairly, although his initial subject choice and subsequent thoughts regarding contempt didn't help his cause. As far as I can tell, Mr A is generally supportive of the campaign to get rid of NGNs but he differs in the sense of proportion and perspective shown by some aspects of the campaign. Although I disagree with him, his point is one that is sometimes made and is an alternative view that should be considered. It is up to those of us that disagree to try to challenge his viewpoint with sensible, rational and moderate argument and not baseless assertions about his employment, education, intelligence or a particular soccer team. Asserting that his particular job has anything to do with his level of understanding of this issue is just nonsense and similar comments will just bring this resource into disrepute. My own belief is that Ofcom, as a body, is incompetent with respect to regulating telephone scams including NGNs and I maintain that its senior executives should be replaced, however unlike some, I do not feel that Ofcom is corrupt in itself, just that it supports a corrupt numbering system. Others believe differently and are entitled to such views. In summary, I believe that Mr A, whatever his job or background, should be encouraged to share his views about NGNs without fear of being abused. Equally, Mr A should also demonstrate the same restraint when criticizing other contributors. Remember most of us, including, I believe Mr A, are on the same side and want to see these numbers consigned to history. How we do it is open to vigorous debate and that should be encouraged.
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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Dave
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #25 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 3:01pm
 
I agree with idb, in that Mr A has been "set upon", but his views that it's "Pathetic" that we thought about telephone charges after the bombing in his OP and moreso his choice of title are just as bad.

His job has nothing to do with it. The more people that understand the issues, the better.

There appear to be many complacent people, who, when you start talking about the prices of 0870 numbers respond "What are you talking about? What a load of rubbish."
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Mr_Asaboa
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #26 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 3:26pm
 
Ok, to conclude, it got a bit silly with some of the comments made, but to be fair I asked for it.

I think that funnily enough during the course of this thread I've actually learnt more than the rest of this forum, and am now slightly embarrased by the Thread title, because I have changed my mind.

Being a 19 year old I probably tend to speak first learn later, something that I'm sure will change with maturity.

As I have always stated I do support he campaign, just some of the comments angered me enough to start this thread title. However, those have now been explained and I do understand why those comment were made in the first place.

I do feel a little foolish now, but having said that I'm pleased in a way because I have learnt a bit more. I am quite interested in this sort of thing, and do read up on it a bit, and as I have always said I think it's something that needs sorting out. Apparetly Ofcom are nowhere near finishing their consultation on the 084 & 085 numbers so yeah, I think they are being pretty inept. Although I do understand that to change these things takes a long time, and any sort of compliance issues I'm sure would be difficult given the magnitude of the task.

I do apologise for some of my behaviour. I don't apologise for not always agreeing 100%, but I think at times I've acted my age, which I think is a shame because I'm usually better than that (despite supporting Millwall and working in a bar!!).

Anyways, in all honesty, keep up the good work. Looking at things in context I WAS wrong, and we DO need people to "make a stand" or at the very least make important issues heard. I wish you all the best.  Smiley
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firestop
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Re: Contempt...
Reply #27 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 3:34pm
 
I'm sure this apology will be accepted by all contributors - we were all young  (and some of us even impetuous!) once , so let's all get along.
Welcome to the site.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Reconciliation
Reply #28 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 3:38pm
 
Quote:
I think that funnily enough during the course of this thread I've actually learnt more than the rest of this forum, and am now slightly embarrased by the Thread title, because I have changed my mind.


Mr A,

If you wish to delete the words Contempt from your original title for this thread this can be done by going back to your first post in the thread and using the Modify button and then changing what is in the Subject.

Believe me I know what it is like to go to a forum on the web as a newbie and make some comment that makes the "in crowd" of the forum pile in against me.  So I know how that can feel but you surely have to concede, as you have done, that using the word Contempt for the thread title was a little intemperate.

I think the thing with 087/4 is to remember that its a question of it being up to 10p per minute and 4p per minute versus zero a minute with people like Tele2 and TalkTalk if you are on their all geographic (all 01/02 apart from the Channel Islands and Isle of Man)  calls plan.

And as I pointed out if a household calls the 0870 numbers for just 22 minutes a day (not difficult as nearly all customer services departments numbers now begin with 0870) that's over £100 extra a quarter or £400 a year in call charges.  I remember that when I didn't know how to avoid these numbers 5 years ago and there were a lot less of them about then it still used to cost me £20 to £30 a quarter in call charges I shouldn't have had to pay.  That's £120 a year.

Anyhow I hope its possible we can all end up on the same side.  I suspect you started off trying to wind us up for a laugh and then realised the issues involved were more important than that.
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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2005 at 3:41pm by N/A »  
 
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Smasher
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Re: Reconciliation
Reply #29 - Oct 16th, 2005 at 4:14pm
 
Quote:
Believe me I know what it is like to go to a forum on the web as a newbie and make some comment that makes the "in crowd" of the forum pile in against me.  So I know how that can feel but you surely have to concede, as you have done, that using the word Contempt for the thread title was a little intemperate.


Was that on the MSE forum by any chance? Wink
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