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You are wrong; forum members have managed to change the number that the government issues - is this not significant?  And as such it is not whinging.  If it was whinging then why would the government have taken notice of us? 

Your shallow mind fails to see the shame in operating a charity donation line costing 40ppm from a mobile - would you be happy to phone that number, hold in a queue for 10 mins and then a further 3-4 mins while your credit card details are taken?  This would cost well over £5 at least, none of which would go towards the charity.  Is this justifiable?  Use your common sense before answering that one, if you have any at all.  The fact that you're a barman shows that you can't be worth much more than pulling levers and handing drinks and packets of crisps over the counter.  Do you seriously think that someone of your calibre can just waltz on here and completely upheave our entire campaign?

The fact that you laugh at other peoples' misfortunes when they have the impression that you are there to talk to is absolutely disgusting.  And you think you have the authority to tell this forum's members what is and isn't right. 

May I ask if you regularly phone 0870 and 0845 numbers?  If so, do you have any qualms about the excessive costs involved?

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Well you don't even know that its 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 and not 0850, that surely says it all about your shallow knowledge of this topic.

And your comments about us not showing concern about the earthquake are utterly ridiculous as this is not a general news forum so we stick to discussing the use of these numbers here at any time.  It may well be that forum members here are also involved in news forums or donate to charities to deal with disasters like this as a separate matter.  But our only relevant discussion of the disaster here is whether the telephone number used is making mobile phone companies rich instead of ensuring that all the money from the person calling is going to the disaster.

By the way I assume by whinging you meant whingeing or wining but I clearly wouldn't expect someone like you to know how to spell more complicated words.

OK - to answer some points:

Firstly, there was never any news coverage that said ALL Millwall supporters were hooligans. You or NGM just assumed that I was some kind of thug just because I am to support Millwall. We have a bad element, but that doesn't mean we are all thugs.

Secondly, whilst I am not going to go into what sort of degree I'm doing (frankly it's none of your business and you couldn't care less) I was merely illustrating that I'm not "just" a barman. I think that your generalisations of people's intelligence based on their jobs is a bit wide of the mark tbh.

I do apologise for some of my language, that's a fair point tbh.

True, I haven't been supportive of this campaign. Also, I did knowthat it was 084 or and 087 numbers, typing 0850 was just a silly mistake. And yes, you can pick me up on my spelling. Well done. My spelling is generally decent (unlike your member who couldn't even spell Ofcom) but I don't tend to take the time to think about my spelling when frequenting message forums. Sorry.

To be fair, I can now see the point you guys were making about the emergency helpline/donation line thing. I still wholly disagree with comments about wishing was Ofcom, I think that sort of sentiment is pathetic. But to be fair now that you've explained it a bit more I can see how/why you were angry about the use of 0870 numbers during the appeals.

I can comprehend the level of discussion by the way. Not agreeing 100% with what you say does not mean I don't understand.

Finally, I really wasn't trying to upheave this campaign. I'm not so foolish as to think that I could come up with anything so porfound as to make people change their minds. I just disagree with *some* of things people have said. I do see your points (or some of them at least) but some of things you've said I disagreed with. Like I say, particularly the Ofcom July 7th comments.

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Mr Asaboa you can use the Modify button to correct errors in what you have already posted in the forum.  As there is no spell check we all make such errors.

I think Smasher was out of order suggesting all Blue Collar workers were idiots who effectively couldn't understand the 087and 084 call issues.  These issues are pretty basic really if anyone cares to understand them and do not require one to be Mastermind.

The issue is particlarly that many people now have inclusive calling plans with CPS for all calls starting 01 and 02 from people like www.tele2.co.uk at only £7.50 per month but these 087/4 calls are excluded from the allowances and charged at a higher price than even BT charges by people like the Post Office.  So in a family household if you make 20 minutes of calls a day to 0870 fnumbers or 22 working days in the month that's 22 x £1.50 so £33 of calls and in a BT quarterly billing quarter £99.  So that's £396 a year of calls to 087/4 numbers that are just normal landline numbers of customer service departments.  So do you now really think people on pensions and low incomes of only £5,000 to £10,000 can afford this extra cost of these calls when they thought if they paid £7.50 a month that all their uk calls to uk landlines would be covered.  Ditto why does Vodafone not even reveal the price of calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers from Pay as You Go mobile phones on their website.

The reference to Ofcom and the bomb business was unfortunate, intemperate, unwise, irrational etc like some of your own comments.  The person who made the comment did so in a rash moment when they were trying to make another point. That point is that Ofcom cost the taxpayer a load of money but never do anything to protect ordinary uk phone users from being exploited.

Mr Asaboa I think being a 19 year old you may have started off trying to see if you could wind us up but I'm sure if you have some serious points about 084/7 ripoff numbers to make that we will be very happy to continue to discuss them with you.

I was going to avoid contributing to this thread, but as it seems to have developed into an unnecessary 'slanging match', I thought I'd make a comment or two for what they are worth. I actually believe that Mr Asaboa has been treated somewhat unfairly, although his initial subject choice and subsequent thoughts regarding contempt didn't help his cause. As far as I can tell, Mr A is generally supportive of the campaign to get rid of NGNs but he differs in the sense of proportion and perspective shown by some aspects of the campaign. Although I disagree with him, his point is one that is sometimes made and is an alternative view that should be considered. It is up to those of us that disagree to try to challenge his viewpoint with sensible, rational and moderate argument and not baseless assertions about his employment, education, intelligence or a particular soccer team. Asserting that his particular job has anything to do with his level of understanding of this issue is just nonsense and similar comments will just bring this resource into disrepute. My own belief is that Ofcom, as a body, is incompetent with respect to regulating telephone scams including NGNs and I maintain that its senior executives should be replaced, however unlike some, I do not feel that Ofcom is corrupt in itself, just that it supports a corrupt numbering system. Others believe differently and are entitled to such views. In summary, I believe that Mr A, whatever his job or background, should be encouraged to share his views about NGNs without fear of being abused. Equally, Mr A should also demonstrate the same restraint when criticizing other contributors. Remember most of us, including, I believe Mr A, are on the same side and want to see these numbers consigned to history. How we do it is open to vigorous debate and that should be encouraged.

Ok, to conclude, it got a bit silly with some of the comments made, but to be fair I asked for it.

I think that funnily enough during the course of this thread I've actually learnt more than the rest of this forum, and am now slightly embarrased by the Thread title, because I have changed my mind.

Being a 19 year old I probably tend to speak first learn later, something that I'm sure will change with maturity.

As I have always stated I do support he campaign, just some of the comments angered me enough to start this thread title. However, those have now been explained and I do understand why those comment were made in the first place.

I do feel a little foolish now, but having said that I'm pleased in a way because I have learnt a bit more. I am quite interested in this sort of thing, and do read up on it a bit, and as I have always said I think it's something that needs sorting out. Apparetly Ofcom are nowhere near finishing their consultation on the 084 & 085 numbers so yeah, I think they are being pretty inept. Although I do understand that to change these things takes a long time, and any sort of compliance issues I'm sure would be difficult given the magnitude of the task.

I do apologise for some of my behaviour. I don't apologise for not always agreeing 100%, but I think at times I've acted my age, which I think is a shame because I'm usually better than that (despite supporting Millwall and working in a bar!!).

Anyways, in all honesty, keep up the good work. Looking at things in context I WAS wrong, and we DO need people to "make a stand" or at the very least make important issues heard. I wish you all the best. 

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Mr A,

If you wish to delete the words Contempt from your original title for this thread this can be done by going back to your first post in the thread and using the Modify button and then changing what is in the Subject.

Believe me I know what it is like to go to a forum on the web as a newbie and make some comment that makes the "in crowd" of the forum pile in against me.  So I know how that can feel but you surely have to concede, as you have done, that using the word Contempt for the thread title was a little intemperate.

I think the thing with 087/4 is to remember that its a question of it being up to 10p per minute and 4p per minute versus zero a minute with people like Tele2 and TalkTalk if you are on their all geographic (all 01/02 apart from the Channel Islands and Isle of Man)  calls plan.

And as I pointed out if a household calls the 0870 numbers for just 22 minutes a day (not difficult as nearly all customer services departments numbers now begin with 0870) that's over £100 extra a quarter or £400 a year in call charges.  I remember that when I didn't know how to avoid these numbers 5 years ago and there were a lot less of them about then it still used to cost me £20 to £30 a quarter in call charges I shouldn't have had to pay.  That's £120 a year.

Anyhow I hope its possible we can all end up on the same side.  I suspect you started off trying to wind us up for a laugh and then realised the issues involved were more important than that.