SAYNOTO0870.COM - Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong

NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: Reconciliation Reply #30 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 4:23pm Quote: Was that on the MSE forum by any chance? I also found there were rather a lot of intimidating by the book Policemen and magistrates at this place if one dared to suggest that current speed limits are too low or that there are too many speed cameras scattered about the place. http://www.5ive-o.org
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Mr_Asaboa

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #31 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 5:30pm

Haha, shall I go and start disagreeing with everything there?! Grin

Perhaps I better not, seeing as I looked an utter mong when I tried to do the same thing.

BTW - NGM - you said that I was on a wind-up til I saw what an important issue the non-geo numbers were. Well, you're not quite right, but you're certainly closer with that one than the notion that I'm the CEO of Ofcom! Wink

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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong Reply #32 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 6:53pm Speaking of the MSE forum, I recall there was a guy using the handle "Loopytush" on there with a similar posting style to the so-called "Mr. Asaboa". I wonder whether they are one and the same?
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Mr_Asaboa

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #33 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 7:07pm

Quote:

Speaking of the MSE forum, I recall there was a guy using the handle "Loopytush" on there with a similar posting style to the so-called "Mr. Asaboa". I wonder whether they are one and the same?

No, I'm afraid I really am just a bloke who used this moniker only. I've never been on here as any other name. I've no "vested interest" (I read your other post). Sorry to dissapoint, but there really is no "conspiracy" regarding me being here. I don't know about having a similar posting style to anyone else, but there's nothing sinister in it I promise you. And as I said before my spelling is generally half decent when I put my mind to it, but I write pretty quickly in a message forum (too quickly - I tend to post before I've thought) and therefore my spelling goes wrong.

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NoNumberTrans

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #34 - Oct 16^th, 2005 at 11:25pm

I think Mr Asaboa (hope that's right) has somewhat missed the point (maybe I have though...) which I think is that people are not aware that they are being charged the amount they are for 0870 numbers hence why the efforts here to help in finding alternative geographic numbers.

Its already been proved that any call stats etc, a receiving company need, can be provided from geographic numbers, so the only excuse can be that either the company didn't realise that the reason they're getting such cheap rates from the telco is the telco is keeping the revenue share or if they do that they'd rather have that revenue but keep quiet about it.

To be fair, I do think Mr Asaboa does have a point in that its often difficult to get people to listen if you start bandying about accusations of (for instance) bribery as a reason why Ofcom does not appear to be taking action on this issue. Ofcom isn't solely representing the interests of the consumer, it has to take into account the reasonable commercial expectations of the telco's.

I believe you always win an argument better if you refrain from maligning your opposer, but ensure you have good evidence to defeat their point of view.

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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong Reply #35 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 12:30am Until the "opposer" who has the supposed power to act, continuously pretends to consider the facts and then prevaricates and procrastinates for years and years without end, and continues to preserve the situation of abuse which is illegal under its own original plan. It seems you have only just come on the scene?
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #36 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 6:11am

Quote:

Until the "opposer" who has the supposed power to act, continuously pretends to consider the facts and then prevaricates and procrastinates for years and years without end, and continues to preserve the situation of abuse which is illegal under its own original plan.

It seems you have only just come on the scene?

Mr Asaboa would only have been 10 or so when the slippery path of descent into 084/7 ripoff land began so therefore the extent of the current unfairness compared to those of us used to a world where every other customer services number was not a premium rate call will not be quite so obvious to him.

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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong Reply #37 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 10:08am Actually NGM that was specifically a reply to the post by NoNumberTrans, since it was he that has just joined the forum and was making the statement concerning the "opposer"!
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Mr_Asaboa

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #38 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 11:01am

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Mr Asaboa would only have been 10 or so when the slippery path of descent into 084/7 ripoff land began so therefore the extent of the current unfairness compared to those of us used to a world where every other customer services number was not a premium rate call will not be quite so obvious to him.

That's true, but I would add that the unfairness of these numbers is becoming more and more apparent to me. Yes, I was unaware of the history before I started spouting my mouth off (as I said - a sure sign that I need to mature and learn to think before speaking / posting) but being utterly honest I think I am learning more about the issues.

I must say it's a credit to yourselves that your argument is strong enough to turn a headstrong (and stubborn - and occassionally childish) lad round to agreeing with you.

I doubt I'll ever be an ardent campaigner or anything (too busy studying and handing over packets of crisps at the bar Wink

) but I can at least appreciate the work people like you guys do.

I concede that far from "just whinging" you actually do some active campaigning, which I have to say is admirable.

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2005 at 11:02am by Mr_Asaboa »

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Dave

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #39 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 11:42am

Quote:

I think Mr Asaboa (hope that's right) has somewhat missed the point (maybe I have though...) which I think is that people are not aware that they are being charged the amount they are for 0870 numbers hence why the efforts here to help in finding alternative geographic numbers.

The point of this forum (and website) is not only to discuss the issues, but to promote them to people who would have otherwise not been aware.

Which is probably why they have come to this site. They've discovered the cost and would like to find a way round it, ie alternative geographical numbers. Some come on the forums to learn more, which is all well and good.

Quote:

I believe you always win an argument better if you refrain from maligning your opposer, but ensure you have good evidence to defeat their point of view.

I would agree. We cannot "force" people to think a certain way, but we can tell them the history, and some whys and wherefores, and the fact that some Ofcom top bosses are ex-telecoms staff. See here.

I hope everyone will be responding to the Ofcom consultations. It can be as long or as short as you want or you have the time for. See responses from the previous consultation.

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dorf

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #40 - Oct 17^th, 2005 at 8:33pm

Congratulations Mr. Asaboa,

It is becoming clear now that you are a reasonable and sensible guy after all. It is probably just that you had been mislead previously by all the propaganda, which is exactly what these scams are about. This is why most people do not seem to understand the point when it is first put to them. They have been so convinced by the propaganda that they genuinely believe that there is no problem and everything to do with the cost of calling these numbers is OK, particularly if they have stayed stubbornly with BT all the time, and not sought to reduce their telephone bills on the supposed basis of "free competition".

Keep reading this forum and soon you will be an expert in these things, then you will understand why we stalwarts get so cross about it all.

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Smasher Senior Member Offline Posts: 346 UK	Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong Reply #41 - Oct 19^th, 2005 at 4:30pm Who are you calling a 'stalwart'?
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dorf Supreme Member Offline I hate Qs on Premium NGNs Posts: 575 UK Gender:	Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong Reply #42 - Oct 19^th, 2005 at 7:05pm Whomsoever wishes to consider themselves to be in that category of "stalwart", as far as opposition to the NGN scams is concerned. If the cap fits wear it!. I would not include anyone in my description who does not want to be there.
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NoNumberTrans

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #43 - Oct 19^th, 2005 at 11:26pm

Quote:

I would agree. We cannot "force" people to think a certain way, but we can tell them the history, and some whys and wherefores, and the fact that some Ofcom top bosses are ex-telecoms staff. See here.

Do you (or any members of this forum for that matter) think it unreasonable that Ofcom's board has ex-members of Telco's on it?

I think it reasonable that they are aware of the reasoning why some Telco's might pursue one course of action rather than another and experience in the industry is good for that.

I think it unreasonable that they have any conflicts of interest with the industry they regulate, because that means they could be seen to be prejudiced on a particular issue.

I haven't yet seen anybody substantiate the claim that members of Ofcom are doing nothing on this issue because they are being bribed through the back door. Also on what basis do you say that abuse of tthe number scheme that perpetuates this is illegal?

I'm relatively new on this forum, but was aware of the issues before joining. I did use it to look up a geographic alternative number, but I couldn't find it. I eventually found it elsewhere (Why I should pay 7.5p minute to ring the local depot of a parcels firm when they are less than 6 miles away I dont realy know, so that's why I came looking). On a side note, do you have to be a member for some time before any geographic alternatives you post appear on this website because the alternative I posted has yet to appear (as of now, posted 2 weeks ago)?

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« Last Edit: Oct 19^th, 2005 at 11:28pm by NoNumberTrans »

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Watch Me Admit I'm Wrong
Reply #44 - Oct 20^th, 2005 at 2:24am

Quote:

On a side note, do you have to be a member for some time before any geographic alternatives you post appear on this website because the alternative I posted has yet to appear (as of now, posted 2 weeks ago)?

Sadly the amount of numbers to be gone through and checked is completely beyond the time and resources of our two moderators Dave and DaveM and althoughs others here have pointed out that if we all did 100 numbers each the problem would be solved in a few days that suggestion hasn't got anywhere.

Essentially if people complain about a NGN alternative not being shown in the Verified list Dave or DaveM then immediately check it and add it to shut the complainer up. But if no one complains it seems that alternative geographic numbers can sadly languish in the unverified list for months.

I would hope the forum owner Daniel could comment on all this except that he would appear to currently be on a long holiday or something as I haven't seen him post in the forum for ages.

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