Hi Dave, It seems I made a mistake in that because the reference should have been to Page 12. which is “070 numbers allocated to hospital patients so that they can have their own number for the duration of their stay (but not where a generic 070 number is used that requires further PINs – see paragraph 15 below).”

I just copied the reference to Page 14 from the original statement in this topic which it seems was wrong.

Hi NonGeographicalMan, I did in fact register originally back in June 2003, but I lost my password and then the e-mail address which I had used became defunct. So I could not retrieve my password and I then re-registered as drrdf3. I have followed the arguments closely on this forum, although I have not contributed much. I am a firm supporter of the campaign to have these rip-offs stopped though and have responded to Ofcom's consultations.

As you say the position and stance of Ofcom is unbelievable. The biggest problem I feel is that every time they do something like this to increase the number of opportunities for rip-offs they just change the Plan to allow all the new ones thereafter.

I feel that even if Ofcom have already agreed to this scam they should now in this consultation use their regulatory powers and put an end to present and future rip-offs with 070s.

drrdf3

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Hi drrdf,

Its good to hear you have in fact been following the forum for a while.  What was your original user name?  I would have thought Dave or Daniel (admin) could have readvised the password if you had asked them.  Although I suppose we have to guard against the opposition who would no doubt be very happy to delete my membership of the forum and all my posts.

As to the current 070 Ofcom consultation they have put all the guidelines in it and not just listed the change highlighted and thus clearly it is possible to comment on the whole lot since they interact and operate together as one logical set.  Also why weren't these issues consulted on together with 084/7 and 09 numbers as one complete consultation document on NTS.  Instead Ofcom have three separate consultations.  Divide and rule as usual it seems.

A key thing to comment on is how they can allow 070 use by Patientline when it doesn't seem that any Patientline customer will be using a hunt group of numbers to find one that they answer on.  Surely one of the key characteristics of a personal number.

It seems to me we could respond saying that if they allow Patientline to use 070 then why are they not allowing student acommodation operators to use 070 since as students have mobiles a number which hunted first on their student landline and then on their mobile and then even to their home number at their parents address could be very handy for them.

Not that we want students relatives to be charged 50p per minute but as Ofcom couldn't possibly allow this it will draw attention to the logical inconsistency of their own PNS Guidelines and hopefully make them back track on allowing 070 for Patientline (there again pigs might fly since we know that signing off the existing abuses of their telecoms industry chums seems to be standard Ofcom practice).

I have now asked Vikki Nash what is the Ofcom process for making a formal complaint about the 14 day consultation period compared to the usual 10 weeks.  Meanwhile we must all respond to this consultation opposing the inappropriate use of 070 for hospital patients on a fixed line by next Tuesday 8th November.

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You are right Dave.

So the comparison should just be why can hospital phone service operators provide their direct dial services to the bedside use PNS while student phone service operators to the room cannot and instead have to use Special Services numbers (viz 0845, 0844, 0870 and 0871).  Bearing in mind that the technological formats of the two types of phone system seem to be virtually identical.

Not of course that we want to see PNS used for students you will understand but rather to demonstrate just why Ofcom cannot justify PNS use for hospital patient phone services.

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Because the Ofcom PNS guidance doesn't make a special provision for student room phone services to now be allowed for PNS.

But this exception has now been made by Ofcom to allow 070 for hospital patient services.

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I take your point Dave but I think Ofcom know they couldn't get away with making students relatives pay 50p per minute for 3 years!

Ofcom seem to think this scam can be allowed to work with Patientline though because most people are only in hospital for a few days or weeks.  And I expect Mr Derek Lewis has lots of important contacts with the right government ministers and senior staff at Ofcom whereas DognBone possibly do not.

Further to my previous post, the hospital system example is in an uncompetitive environment. As there are many different rates (what Ofcom refer to as 'pricing points') for 070 numbers, there needs to be some 'market forces' to drive down these prices. I ask Ofcom, where are they in this example?

Perhaps Ofcom hopes that the NHS will be privatised and that we will all be given some "choice" of which hospital we go to. That way, should we be struck down with some illness, we can elect which hospital we would "like" to go, based on the "services" it provides, including whether friends and relatives can ring us at a cheaper rate. 

Also, by putting Patientline-type systems on the list of acceptable uses, by definition, permits them to charge upto 50p/min, unless there are rules that state otherwise. So pricing is relevant wherever there is the question of extending legitimate uses of 070.   

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Assuming there are any legitimate uses of 070 in the first place given that 0871 seems to be able to do all of the same jobs.  The only reason people use 070 is to get a higher rate per minute.  It is also favoured by abusers like Retainacar who use it for their customer call centre which is clearly only based in one place.

And I think that all such revenue sharing, even if "notional revenue sharing" as here, should be behind 09 and subject to control. That is what 09 was for in the new numbering plan.
That and protection for the citizen-consumer.
Now off to look for a flying-pig smiley.