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Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Costs (Read 109,654 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #60 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 1:40pm
 
Here is the actual email allegedly being sent out by certain uk Police forces in response to FOI requests that mc661 received:-

Quote:
The Attachment
I write in connection with your request for information, received by this office on [DATE].  I understand you are requesting information concerning:  

[SUBJECT RELATING TO 0870/0845]

Requests to public authorities on this subject have been many and numerous since the introduction of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Much public debate has already been generated over the introduction of these numbers.

Various campaign groups have formed and on numerous occasions have posed the same or similar questions. The responses have been posted on a range of websites and this has led to articles and copies of the information appearing in the national media.  The information has been placed in the public domain.

In addition to the tactic of repeatedly asking the same question, the responses have often been debated in chat rooms, on websites and in other types of publications.  During these discussions, derogatory personal comments have been made about members of the police service.  Other generic insults have also been published. In some cases, these actions have been supplemented by rude and aggressive personal contact via telephone.  

The result has been personal stress and anguish caused to members of staff and this has undermined the efficiency and effectiveness of the forces concerned.  More importantly, these actions have caused harm to the individuals involved.  It is the view of the police service that any form of attack on it staff will not be tolerated, simply because they are performing a public function.

It should be noted that [NAME OF POLICE FORCE] considers that this subject is now classified as vexatious under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).

Any requests on the subject will be refused using the Section 14 exemption. This exemption applies where the day-to-day functions of a public body, in particular its ability to manage the work that arises from its obligation to comply with the FOIA, are undermined by a number of apparently obsessive requests and the pursuit of continuing associated correspondence.  

The whole philosophy behind the introduction of the FOIA is to achieve an effective balance between the individual’s right to know and an authority’s need to deliver its functions effectively.  This balance is challenging to maintain.  Whilst the police service wishes to optimise avenues of communication, the Information Commissioner’s view is that, where appropriate, we are entitled to produce an overall strategy, define suitable parameters and implement an approach to control situations such as this.  

This position is further supported by the guidance issued by the Information Commissioner, ICO’s guidance no 22.  A synopsis of this guidance follows:

The Commissioner is confident that most members of the public will exercise their new rights sensibly and responsibly. However, it is recognised that some individuals - and perhaps some organisations - may seek to abuse these new rights. Even though it may not have been the explicit intention of the applicant to cause inconvenience, it will be appropriate to treat the request as being vexatious.  While giving maximum support to individuals genuinely seeking to exercise the new right to know, the Commissioner’s general approach will be sympathetic towards authorities where a request, which may be the latest in a series of requests, would impose a significant burden and:


·  Clearly does not have any serious purpose or value  
·  Is designed to cause disruption or annoyance  
·  Has the effect of harassing the public authority  
·  Can otherwise fairly be characterised as obsessive or manifestly unreasonable  

I regret that I am unable to meet your request but should you have any further information needs in the future then please contact me.  

You have the right to ask us to review this decision.  If you wish us to review this decision please set out your grounds for review in writing and send them to the [YOUR INFORMATION MANAGER INTERNAL REVIEW ADDRESS]

If you are still dissatisfied following an internal review you also have the right to appeal to the Information Commissioner at Commissioner’s Officer, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF.  

end attachment


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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2005 at 1:44pm by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #61 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 1:47pm
 
Quote:
NGM, if you have a copy of the draft reply referred to. perhaps you could post it here.

Andy9,

Thankyou for your helpful assistance in pointing out my failure to also post the actual circular message apparently being sent out by uk Police forces getting FOI requests about their 0845 contact centre numbers.

I hope that we can now continue to work together in this constructive manner and that in time we may even be able to take each other off our list of recipients to be Ignored in respect of Instant Messages in this forum.
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2005 at 1:47pm by N/A »  
 
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andy9
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #62 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 1:52pm
 
Thank you.

I see what you mean about alleged bully boy tactics, but somebody else's assertion appears to have rather preceded yours.

Quote:
In addition to the tactic of repeatedly asking the same question, the responses have often been debated in chat rooms, on websites and in other types of publications.  During these discussions, derogatory personal comments have been made about members of the police service.  Other generic insults have also been published. In some cases, these actions have been supplemented by rude and aggressive personal contact via telephone.


I would imagine that anybody telephoning with these enquiries will have given their name, and that some of the alleged troublemakers are therefore identified.
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andy9
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #63 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 2:43pm
 
Quote:
I hope that we can now continue to work together in this constructive manner and that in time we may even be able to take each other off our list of recipients to be Ignored in respect of Instant Messages in this forum.


My last comments stand, especially in view of your most recent accusations. 

I would imagine that other members wish to hear no further
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mc661
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #64 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 3:07pm
 
hi andy9

I spoke to someone who went to school with me who now works as an FOI Officer at a Police Force (which shall remain annon at their request). He has said that his boss the Information Manager has instructed him to answer any telephony FOI's with that standard Response.

What was copied by NGN was what was sent by the IC office to all the police forces.
I have had that exact word for word response sent to me by two different police forces (city of london (which doesnt even use 0845's) and Avon&Somerset), my friend works for another force.

So thats 3 forces, one of which doesnt use 0845's, using the same cut n paste response already.

I will be making a complaint to the IPCC later.
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2005 at 3:25pm by mc661 »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #65 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 4:06pm
 
It looks like ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) is behind this and if you check their website they in turn take their lead on IT mattets from a civilian, Mr Philip Jacobs of PITO.

I suggest people email chris.fox@acpo.police.uk who is head of ACPO complaining about these monstrous instructions to FOI officers in uk Police forces probably put together by the people responsible for the 0870 casualty number for the London bombings (www.pito.org.uk.

You might also like to copy this to philip.webb@pito.org.uk, philip.jacobs@pito.org.uk and chris.earnshaw@pito.org.uk

Or am I dropping your friend in it here mc661.  I suspect you ought to have set up a new unknown forum id for this purpose. Wink
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2005 at 4:06pm by N/A »  
 
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mc661
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call
Reply #66 - Nov 9th, 2005 at 6:35pm
 
how many police forces are there in the country? Including the non regional ones? Theyll never be found out!

You got a link to where those instructions were?
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2005 at 6:37pm by mc661 »  
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #67 - Nov 27th, 2005 at 6:41pm
 
Had my FOI back from the SNEN Programme team based within the HomeOffice.  Despite it was sent in electronic form, their reply back was in snail mail format so I'll just quote most relevant info:-

Quote:
After a thorough search, I regret to inform you that the Home Office does not hold the information that you have requested.  The public consultation referred to in the Single Non-Emergency Number Programme Newsletter ont he Association of Police Authorities website, is in fact a piece of research which is being carried out for the Home Office on the public's priorities and perceptions concerning non-emergency crime, anti-social behavioius and community safety issues and access to and delivery of related public services.  This research consists of telephone surveys and discussions with focus groups.  There is no public consultation document and there is not likely to be one published in the future.
Basically although it was referred to as a public consultation it isn't actually one.  I'm going to ask for a copy of this other consultation (well the sections relevant to this new proposed SNEN).

Rather than send this back via snailmail, does anyone know the email format that the HomeOffice use?
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« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2005 at 6:42pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #68 - Nov 29th, 2005 at 9:27pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Nov 27th, 2005 at 6:41pm:
Rather than send this back via snailmail, does anyone know the email format that the HomeOffice use?


firstname.lastname@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk is the format used.
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idb
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The SNEN consultation
Reply #69 - Dec 10th, 2005 at 12:31pm
 
I have not yet read the SNEN 101 con doc, yet I feel obliged to provide a response, even if it is only a couple of paragraphs as I suspect this is yet another Ofcom balls-up. Obviously my main concern is that calls can be made from outside the UK.

Can anyone tell me whether the proposed 101 number will mean that police forces will not publish geographic numbers for the public any longer?

Is the 101 issue actually irrelevant to people like myself that live overseas; ie should I ignore this consultation?
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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gdh82
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #70 - Dec 13th, 2005 at 8:48pm
 
Quote:


I can see the cover sheet on page32 of the above .pdf file but would anyone have or could anyone point me in the direction of the equivalent word document please ?

Deadline's approaching and I want to have my say!
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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2005 at 8:57pm by gdh82 »  

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc
 
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Dave
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #71 - Dec 13th, 2005 at 9:11pm
 
gdh82 wrote on Dec 13th, 2005 at 8:48pm:
I can see the cover sheet on page32 of the above .pdf file but would anyone have or could anyone point me in the direction of the equivalent word document please ?

Coversheet files are hereWink

You don't have to attach one. I didn't to the previous consultations and I notice you didn't either.
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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2005 at 9:13pm by Dave »  
 
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gdh82
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #72 - Dec 13th, 2005 at 9:23pm
 
Dave wrote on Dec 13th, 2005 at 9:11pm:
Coversheet files are hereWink


Thanks Dave - appreciate the link.  Perhaps it isn't clear from the responses page but previously I've filled in the word document and then sent as an attachment.  Thanks again anyway Smiley

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There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: The SNEN consultation
Reply #73 - Dec 13th, 2005 at 11:00pm
 
idb wrote on Dec 10th, 2005 at 12:31pm:
Obviously my main concern is that calls can be made from outside the UK.

Can anyone tell me whether the proposed 101 number will mean that police forces will not publish geographic numbers for the public any longer?

Is the 101 issue actually irrelevant to people like myself that live overseas; ie should I ignore this consultation?


Those all seem to be issues that our press on modernising friends in the Home Office, PITO and the police forces seem not to have thought about.  Also since even someone working in London may need to call the West Sussex or Thames Valley Police then the issue of how to call another police force and whether they have a geographic NEN too (as compared to those current horrid 0845 numbers) arises even in the UK. Ditto for councils and so on.

The questions you raise above are all valid points to be made in your response idb as is the issue of the calls not being priced at geographic rates and even costing more than the BT Option 1 5.5p for 60 minutes off peak when many of these NEN calls will actually be made.

I suspect you will find this is worth at least 3 pages of A4 response if not the full 15 pages that you and I both mustered on NTS Way Forward.

Also you must mention why the Police think they need this single NEN number now just when PSTN phone calls are about to die out and when many European countries have had a single NEN for years.  Also the non standardisation with the European 3 digit NEN code proposed by the EU and lastly the failure to propose a single NEN true Voip contact address as part of this consultation.  This is totally unacceptable in 2005

I hesitate to point out the PRS consultation that is also closing on Dec 22nd too. Shocked  I fear there are things in that we should also comment.

Its all one spectrum of people having to pay non standard charges for calls to standard uk landlines and people not being properly informed of the call costs they have to pay for calling these numbers.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom Consults on 101 Police Number & Call Cos
Reply #74 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:57am
 
I see that Ofcom has just wielded its pathetic weak willed regulatory rubber stamp to give a ringing endorsement to the 101 Single Non Emergency Number at 10p per call across all telecoms companies demanded by the Home Office and PITO.  As expected the comments of myself and others who took considerable time and trouble to oppose these ridiculous proposals have been completely and utterly ignored.

As ever Ofcom seems to have taken far more notice of what its government masters (who ultimately dish out patronage such as knighthoods and peerages to senior regulatory staff like David Currie and Stephen Carter) want than of the views of the uk citizen and uk consumer that section 3.1 of the Communications Act 2003 suggest that they are meant to put first. Angry Angry Angry Angry

See www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/03/nr_20060308

<<Ofcom agrees to Home Office request for 101 as single non-emergency number


Ofcom today confirmed that, in response to a specific Home Office request, the telephone number '101' will be made available as a single non-emergency number in the UK.

As part of the Home Office's wider police reform proposals, this service would enable the public to report criminal or anti-social behaviour in situations which are not considered to be an emergency.

The Home Office has already consulted on the introduction of this service and asked Ofcom to make '101' available for it. Ofcom is responsible for the administration of the UK's numbering resource and in October 2005 published a separate public consultation on the use of ‘101’.

Ofcom has not given any view on the appropriate tariff for calling this service. The Home Office has confirmed its plans to secure a common rate of 10 pence per call for this service across all networks. This is subject to ongoing implementation discussions between the Home Office and communications providers.

Ends.>>
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« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2006 at 11:00am by N/A »  
 
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