Right back to the discussion about revenue split!!

I know BT are trying to defend their 0870, but their share is not as massive as you may think.

Whilst the average customer would pay 7.5p per minute for an 0870 call, the telco companies offering the best rate for call centres seem to pay around 4p per minute, which is over half of the revenue.

I think that 5p per minute is a more fair figure of what the terminating operator receives per minute from BT, which they split with their end subscriber either in rebate or free call routing software (or both)

Also, remember that the price we pay for our phones is inclusive of VAT, so 1.25p per minute is paid to the government, leaving BT with only 1.25p per minute.

Although this is less than the previous calculations, it is less than the 3p per minute (about 2.2p + VAT) they receive on those who haven't signed up to a better deal on geo numbers during the day!!

I read in an earlier post that having made all this money from 0870, BT now want to abolish 0870 numbers (yes it is true), and these figures would explain why!!

During the evening, it might be fair to say that BT keep 0.5p per minute from 0870 numbers.  For calls that last longer than 8 minutes, then they are making more profit from their Option 1 customers than their geo call costing 5.5p (including VAT) for up to an hour.

Where BT make the money from 0870, is from their Option 2, or Option 3 customers, who would otherwise have made a free call.

Just remember, the biggest beneficiary of the 0870 revenue is the terminating telco, and not BT.

With all those figures in mind, BT probably can manage without 0870 as the originating supplier.  If all those 0870 calls were added up, and instead changed to geo calls, they would make more money from their daytime option 1, and 2 customers, and more money from short calls from option 1 customers in the evening, although they would lose money from those customers calling on an inclusive calls plan, but averaging out all those customers, they would make roughly the same.

They would only lose money, in their capacity as the terminating operator, where they receive 5p per minute from BT retail and mobile telcos.

Yes the terminating telco for most NGNs is BT. Since they have lost so much normal call traffic, because they are no longer sufficiently competitive, a large portion of their call revenue is now derived from the increasing change to NGNs. That is why they insisted in the last Ofcom consultation that the actual number for their NGN traffic was "redacted" in that consultation from the publicly distributed document, and of course Ofcom agreed (to help them out so to speak!).

Hi bb_uk,

I agree that the issue of whether or not BT actually terminate the majority of NGN calls is strictly off-topic, but it was not me that raised it in this topic - it was Shiggaddi who raised it and I was merely replying to his point. In any case if you are making the accusation. As the first contributor to make that accusation in this thread why are you then continuing to discuss the off-topic issue? It seems to me a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

From what you write I could be forgiven for having the impression that you were something of a fan of BT and somewhat rising to their support? Sometimes comments like yours make me wonder how many of us there are on this forum that are really dedicated to fighting these scams. The first point is that these scams were started by BT and Oftel then rubber stamped them. The second is that every move BT make now is to introduce a new dirty commercial trick because they cannot or do not want to compete on an level playing field. Then they get Ofcom to OK their tricks and even to change the NTNP to make allowance for them.

BT did not as you infer force all their Line Rental only customers to Option 1 so that they could do them the favour of reducing call charges. They did it as yet another dirty commercial trick to extract more from the droves of their customers that were leaving them and going over particular to CPS deals or using other telco carriers for their calls; and to give the artificial impression that their call costs are more competitive than they really are. (NGM can give you the figure because he mentioned it before, but the actual annual cost to BT of providing a single domestic line is a fraction of the Option 1 annual fee.) That is the reason that other telcos were complaining, because it was a deceitful dirty commercial trick which Ofcom should never have allowed, since it was not in the interest of the Citizen Consumer.

The reality is that BT have the huge economies of scale. They have the huge infrastructure laid down. Yet it is such a poorly managed concern and is so inefficient that they cannot compete with newer telcos who have organised their businesses to be hyper efficient and cost conscious. Rather than BT being "prohibited in some ways from being competitive", in fact they have all of the advantages, yet they still cannot compete on a level playing field, principally because their management is so bad.

Quote:
I noticed that the site owner mentioned it here whilst responding to a post by NGM.

So, does anyone have any news yet about the mass mail-out? Has it already gone out? If so I have not received mine. Is it to go out soon?

Surely time is running out?

How long can it take to write an email for distribution?  It's been a while since it was promised.
I used to think this site really wanted to get 0870's sorted out,
I now go with the people who say things are maybe not what they seem to be.
Are we all being conned on here?  Perhaps NGM is right in his statements??