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BT "Service Charges" (Read 35,925 times)
trevord
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #15 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 5:45pm
 
bigjohn wrote on Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:28pm:
What about Talk Talk ,Post Office Home Phone, Toucan, and Homecall to name but four of the providers now providing line rental.

I've just been handed a leaflet at the Post Office promoting HomePhone and offering £50 'cash back'.

It claims:
  • "Line rental from only £9.95 [Direct Debit] per month.  Lower than BT."
  • "And don't worry, other call features are charged at exactly the same price as BT charge you now.  (Excludes BT calling feature packs)."

So I called them (freephone) and asked, "Does this mean that Caller ID (BT Privacy) is free?"  Answer: "No, it's £1.70 per month."  (Had to call them 'cos I couldn't find calling feature charges on their website.)

So, as I suspected (and discussed in other messages on this forum), comparing, like with like, line rental inclusive of Caller ID: BT £11.00; PO £11.65.

While the PO might get away with claiming "Cheaper line rental than BT" (the basic charge is cheaper if you don't want Caller ID), I don't think they should get away with claiming "call features are charged at exactly the same price as BT charge you now".

I see a complaint to Advertising Standards coming on ...

I also asked them whether one can use alternative carriers (e.g. 1899, etc.) - and again, not surprisingly, the answer was "No".

So, to rydaway and others looking for an alternative line rental provider - be careful about what alternative you are buying.
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rydaway
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #16 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 6:05pm
 
trevord wrote on Jan 6th, 2006 at 5:45pm:
bigjohn wrote on Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:28pm:
What about Talk Talk ,Post Office Home Phone, Toucan, and Homecall to name but four of the providers now providing line rental.


..............................

So, as I suspected (and discussed in other messages on this forum), comparing, like with like, line rental inclusive of Caller ID: BT £11.00; PO £11.65.

.....................................

I also asked them whether one can use alternative carriers (e.g. 1899, etc.) - and again, not surprisingly, the answer was "No".

So, to rydaway and others looking for an alternative line rental provider - be careful about what alternative you are buying.


Mny tks, trevord.  Ain't done anything all day other than sort the **** computer out.  Guess it got a bug.  Quite serious - reformat of HD needed!  Thank goodness for backups!!

One assumes all who offer alternative line rental won't allow "other" providers so don't intend to waste time at the moment 'phoning round / delving through web sites.

Will be interesting to see what sort of response you get to the letter which is ". . coming on. . ."   When I jumped up and down about 18866 increasing connection fee from 2p to 3p to 4p, nobody was interested - it is a ". . . commercial decision within the terms of their T&C of service."
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« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2006 at 6:14pm by rydaway »  

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bigjohn
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #17 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 6:13pm
 
  Some more good reasons why its not a good idea to move your line rental from Bt in this recent thread on MSE   http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=132216


Plus T T are now charging for basic 1571 see here
http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1136567054
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« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2006 at 6:20pm by bigjohn »  

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #18 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:13am
 
bigjohn wrote on Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:28pm:
What about Talk Talk ,Post Office Home Phone, Toucan, and Homecall to name but four of the providers now providing line rental.


None of these have line rental that is more than a pound or two cheaper a quarter than BT's headline £33 a quarter after the price increase.  And all of these other companies bar you from using services like 1899 and 18185 and even good old BT on 1280 (BT being generally cheapest for 0845 in particular).  And all these companies have a charge for Caller Display that makes the total line rental higher than BT if you are on  BT Privacy which gives free Caller Display.  Once you are with one of these companies you can only get cheap call prices using dial through companies like www.dialaround.co.uk and www.bestminutes.co.uk but all of these charge you 5p each time you call the dial through number, even if your call is not connected through to your destination at the other end.

BT's line rental is a disgraceful scam as I am in a rural area and there is no alternative if you also need broadband.  The water company here only charges £5.50 a quarter for their pipe and meter so why does BT's copper wire cost £33.

In fact BT have a scheme called Light User at £9.50 a quarter for which I meet all their criteria except for having broadband on the line and having a mobile (I could possible be untruthful about the latter but not the former which their BT Wholesale clearly knows about even though my broadband is from Freedom2Surf).

Ofcom had a review of BT's valuation of its copper wire network a while ago which led to it signing off BT's disgraceful quarterly rental charges.  But why does BT not have a "no standing charge" option with higher unit costs as gas and electricity companies do?  Answer because the useless Ofcom lets BT get away with it. Wink Angry
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #19 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:19am
 
rydaway wrote on Dec 30th, 2005 at 4:13pm:
Anybody any suggestions, please, how one minimises BT's astronomical quarterly "Service Charge" of £36.00?


Suggest you write an email putting that question to the following:-

stephen.carter@ofcom.org.uk
sean.wiliams@ofcom.org.uk
kip.meek@ofcom.org.uk

Especially draw attention to the fact that BT's Wholesale Line Rental scheme is a pile of junk and not resulting in quarterly line rental that is actually any cheaper from BT's competitors.   Tell them that in the real world that most people also use some Network Services like especially Caller Display and BT must be forced to make Caller Display free for all phone users on its own line rental or on competitor line rental products.  Also ask why Caller Display is a free service even on a Pay as You Go mobile phone.
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #20 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:39am
 
Quote:
rydaway wrote on Dec 30th, 2005 at 4:13pm:
Anybody any suggestions, please, how one minimises BT's astronomical quarterly "Service Charge" of £36.00?


Suggest you write an email putting that question to the following:-

stephen.carter@ofcom.org.uk
sean.wiliams@ofcom.org.uk
kip.meek@ofcom.org.uk

Especially draw attention to the fact that BT's Wholesale Line Rental scheme is a pile of junk and not resulting in quarterly line rental that is actually any cheaper from BT's competitors.   Tell them that in the real world that most people also use some Network Services like especially Caller Display and BT must be forced to make Caller Display free for all phone users on its own line rental or on competitor line rental products.  Also ask why Caller Display is a free service even on a Pay as You Go mobile phone.


Thanks;  have already contacted Stephen C and got standard fob-off response number "21".

What about all of us sending a similar message, to all the guys you suggest, on the same day?  If you would be happy to prepare a suitable script and arrange a timing,  NonGeographicalMan, you can certainly count me in.
Does this board/site allow a facility to email contact all who have registered to the site to spread the idea?
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bigjohn
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #21 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:46am
 
Quote:
bigjohn wrote on Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:28pm:
What about Talk Talk ,Post Office Home Phone, Toucan, and Homecall to name but four of the providers now providing line rental.


None of these have line rental that is more than a pound or two cheaper a quarter than BT's headline £33 a quarter after the price increase.  And all of these other companies bar you from using services like 1899 and 18185 and even good old BT on 1280 (BT being generally cheapest for 0845 in particular).  And all these companies have a charge for Caller Display that makes the total line rental higher than BT if you are on  BT Privacy which gives free Caller Display.  Once you are with one of these companies you can only get cheap call prices using dial through companies like www.dialaround.co.uk and www.bestminutes.co.uk but all of these charge you 5p each time you call the dial through number, even if your call is not connected through to your destination at the other end.



When i mentioned them i was in no way advocating that they were a good bet in fact far from it.I was just responding to rydaways post of 1/1/2006.

Other things to be considered are.

Talk Talk are increaseing line rental to £10.50 on 1/2/006. TT charge for basic 1571 50p a month BT dont.
None of them support call sign. Some have minute billing eg Homecall i believe.You lose the BT moving home deal.You cant cps your calls to get things like free evening and weekend calls,Last but not least your fault response might suffer.
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:56am by bigjohn »  

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #22 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:54am
 
bigjohn wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:46am:
When i mentioned i was in no way advocating that they were a good bet in fact far from it.I was just responding to


Yes I realised that bigjohn.  I was just keen to discourage rydaway from doing something he might regret.
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #23 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:58am
 
Quote:
bigjohn wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:46am:
When i mentioned i was in no way advocating that they were a good bet in fact far from it.I was just responding to


Yes I realised that bigjohn.  I was just keen to discourage rydaway from doing something he might regret.


Thanks. Like you i do think the BT Service charge is excessive!!!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #24 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:09am
 
rydaway wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:39am:
Thanks;  have already contacted Stephen C and got standard fob-off response number "21".

What about all of us sending a similar message, to all the guys you suggest, on the same day?  If you would be happy to prepare a suitable script and arrange a timing,  NonGeographicalMan, you can certainly count me in.
Does this board/site allow a facility to email contact all who have registered to the site to spread the idea?


Mr Carter does seem to think he is far too important to ever have any direct communication with the mere citizens and consumers he is there to represent as his no 1 obligation and who pay most of his salary.  I can't really recommend anything amounting to an email petition as those are usually seen to be the work of one individual and treated as such.  A steady drip.drip of indiviudal emails is more likely to wear them down.

I would recommend more of you lodging a complaint with BT Complaints Review Service (but you have to make complaint to customer services on 150 and then a supervisor first before you can go there) about the fact that BT Light User Scheme is not made available to those of you who make very few calls on your line with BT just because you have broadband too.  Ideally reach Deadlock on this with BT and escalate on to Otelo.

See www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_complaint_service&chil...
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:50am by N/A »  
 
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #25 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:41am
 
Quote:
bigjohn wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:46am:
When i mentioned i was in no way advocating that they were a good bet in fact far from it.I was just responding to


Yes I realised that bigjohn.  I was just keen to discourage rydaway from doing something he might regret.


Tks, NonGeographicalMan, your guidance was followed.  As others don't allow alternative service providers, have no option but to keep with BT for line rental.  There was a time, some years back, when users of an alternative service provider were able to enjoy BT's light user line rental.  This all disappeared when the local exchange went digital.

OK, will drip, drip, drip.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #26 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:57am
 
rydaway wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:41am:
OK, will drip, drip, drip


I suggest writing to your MP setting out why you think that Ofcom is failing in its duties under Section 3 (i) of the Communications Act 2003 to take action in the best interests of the uk citizen and uk consumer.   See www.ofcom.org.uk/about/sdrp/

Since the only people Ofcom are accountable to are Parliament as a whole (incredibly they are not accountable to either an Ombudsman or a Minister) your MP is the person who has the most power to call Ofcom to account.

I think pointing out that there is no cheap line rental scheme for people who only need their BT copper wire for broadband service and could make all their phone calls via voip is a very worthwhile point to make.  As is the fact that there is no cheap line rental scheme for people who are less well off but need to make a normal amount of phone calls (very likely with an unemployed or sick or elderly person based at home al the time who in fact constitute most of the least well off).

See www.writetothem.com to write to your MP online
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2006 at 11:58am by N/A »  
 
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #27 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 3:32pm
 
Quote:
I would recommend more of you lodging a complaint with BT Complaints Review Service [...] about the fact that BT Light User Scheme is not made available to those of you who make very few calls on your line with BT just because you have broadband too.  [...]

Information on Light User Scheme is available in PDF here.

In summary, main points of LUS are:
  • Line rental is £12 per month, whether paid by Direct Debit or not. BT Together Option 1 is available for £12 per month if not paying by DD and £11 if paying by DD.
  • Not eligable for Friends and Family.
  • Call charges distinguish between local and national numbers, as they did on BT Standard.
  • A rebate is available if call charges are below £17.71 inc VAT (£15.07 exc VAT). Details in the link above.

I don't agree that LUS should be opened up to everyone because it was devised for light-users of the telephone network. Just because it suits some better than the current offering is no basis to say that it's unfair that everyone can't use it.

Instead, I think that the best approach would be to complain/question Ofcom as to why it is that competition hasn't brought down the price of mainstream lines below that of LUS, rendering it pointless. This is the reals crooks of the matter, and highlights what a joke the residential telecommunications market has turned out to be in this country.

What's also not been pointed out on here is how LUS line rental has been pushed up in line with other 'competitive' packages. There is no competition amongst light user schemes because there is only one of them! Thus, there is no competitive force to push the price down for 'light users'. AFAIK, in essence the LUS has remained the same apart from the line rental charge. This has risen from £9.50* when BT Standard existed to £12 per month, in line with the 'mainstream'/'standard' line rental charges. Why is it that these 'competitive forces', which seem intent on pushing up the cost of a telephone line, also apply to LUS?

* This was the price with £1 discount for paying by Direct Debit. Was this discount provided or was it £10.50 for everyone?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #28 - Jan 14th, 2006 at 9:38am
 
Dave wrote on Jan 13th, 2006 at 3:32pm:
  • Line rental is £12 per month, whether paid by Direct Debit or not. BT Together Option 1 is available for £12 per month if not paying by DD and £11 if paying by DD


Dave,

I am surprised to find that you of all people do not appear to understand how the BT Light User scheme works.

According to Page 5 of the PDF booklet you provided the link to you receive a discount of 11.9p for ever 10p your total quarterly call bill (before VAT) is below £17.10.  But if your total quarterly call bill before VAT is between £10.59 and £15.07 (before VAT) you receive a rebate of £7.04 (before VAT) and If your call bill before VAT per quarter is £15.08 or above you are charged the full rental of £36 (including VAT) even though you have paid BT Standard call charges.  So if one assumes a customer who  just wants the line rental for Voip on broadband and wants to make all calls using Voip then a total possible rebate of 171 x 11.9p = £20.35 + VAT saving of £3.56 = £23.91 is achievable if no calls are made on the line.  This leaves you with a residual line rental of £12.09 to pay compared to the full £36 without discount.  I'm not quite sure of the logic of how this discount works as I see the other line discount scheme (In Contact Plus) now costs £10.75 per quarter inc VAT ( see www.bt.com/customerservices/downloads/in_contact_plus.pdf ) and I thought BT Light User and IN Contact Plus both previously had the same quarterly cost of £9.50 inc VAT if no calls were made.  The point of In Contact Plus is that no outgoing calls can be dialled on the line in the normal way except for 999, 100, 112 and 150 and everything else has to be done through a speciall calling card with a PIN.  This allows the line owner to keep better control over the line not being used unnecessarily that Light User but the same ridiculous restrictions on not having broadband, owning a mobile, using another phone service and so on apply.

So Dave it seems your knowledge is incomplete as for anyone who just wants their line for broadband and to only use Voip the cost of Light User or In Contact Plus line rental is hugely lower if only BT allowed you to have these line rental schemes with broadband.

I am rather amazed to think you imagined that the Light User Scheme cost all its customers £36 a quarter in addition to higher call costs as I had rather come to think of you as our telecoms guru in this forum. Shocked
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« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2006 at 9:43am by N/A »  
 
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Re: BT "Service Charges"
Reply #29 - Jan 14th, 2006 at 4:10pm
 
Quote:
[...] So if one assumes a customer who  just wants the line rental for Voip on broadband and wants to make all calls using Voip then a total possible rebate of 171 x 11.9p = £20.35 + VAT saving of £3.56 = £23.91 is achievable if no calls are made on the line.  This leaves you with a residual line rental of £12.09 to pay compared to the full £36 without discount.

[...]

I am rather amazed to think you imagined that the Light User Scheme cost all its customers £36 a quarter in addition to higher call costs as I had rather come to think of you as our telecoms guru in this forum. Shocked

I hadn't considered it like that. So that's an equivalent of £4.03 per month then.

But the fact still remains that BT has pushed up the price of LUS by £1.50 (or £2.50 if there was a discount for paying DD) in the last 18 months. I appreciate that's not a lot compared to what most of us have had to put up with, but it's still pushing up the cost of a telephone for all. It is an outrage that a basic telephone line costs 50% more than it did on 30 June 2004. This isn't progress!
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