Am I the only person who is totally infuriated at BT's current deliberately malicious policy of now removing CLI information on any call entering its fixed line network that has either originated overseas or that has routed overseas along the way whilst originating in the UK (eg 1899, 18185, Dialwise etc).  Vodafone are passing through all of these CLIs on my Vodafone PAYG phone, even though Caller Display is a free service, but BT is not even though many people still have to pay extra for Caller Display on Fixed Lines (including all those on Wholesale Line Rental products).

As a specific example if I call any person on a BT line from my BT line using 1899 they always now report that they are getting International and Number Withheld.  However if I call my own Vodafone from my BT line using 1899 the CLI is displayed without any problem.

Also when I recently received calls from HP's customer service centre in India their Indian CLI was shown when they called my Vodafone on one occasion but was always displayed as International Withheld on my BT line.

The strange thing is that 6 or 7 years ago I had visitors here from Latvia and one of them called my BT number using his Latvian mobile and I remember being most impressed that back in those days a Latvian mobile company was passing on its CLI and it was being displayed on my Caller Display unit on my BT fixed line.

I have filed this as a complaint with BT High Level Complaints who have just called to tell me I will receive a Deadlock letter that will let me escalate the matter to Otelo.  However they pathetically continue to maintain that the only reason I don't get these overseas CLIs is because the BT network is technically incapable of deciphering this CLI information when the call hits the UK network.  But I maintain that this is a deliberately cynical move by BT to try and make any rival cheap call carrying service in the uk that routes calls outside the uk and back look like an inferior service.  And I do get regular comments from people I call with Caller Display mystified by my number coming up as International Withheld.

I really don't think BT have a leg to stand on but if Otelo is as useless as I suspect them to be they will just sign off this continued customer abuse by BT.  And its not even as though I have a choice of fixed line phone supplier in this area.

Have other members of this forum also observed this deliberate CLI removal by BT and what is your opinion on the matter?

Heinz wrote on Jan 12^th, 2006 at 12:21pm:


I think you will find that in the evening and the weekend that 1899's call routing path does not then take it out of the UK and then coming back in throught BT's international call gateway.  It seems to be that act which presents it to BT as an internationl call and on my small country exchange BT is consistently not presenting all caller IDs that come in through the international call gateway including all genuine calls from overseas.

I did make a call to the burglar alarm/fax secondary line at my mother's house in Bucks befoe I went there at Christmas and when I did 1471 on that line a CLI of 00 44 1306 712900 seemed to be reported (but then I called on a Saturday morning).  So it seems possible that BT's handling of CLIs presented from outside the uk is dependent on the vintage of one's phone exchange.

However a call from 1899 to my Vodafone mobile in the weekday daytime does come up with the normal uk caller ID with no 00 44 on the front or anything and as I said a call from HP's customer service centre in India came up with a CLI with the country code for India whereas several other calls from that customer service centre to my BT line all came up as International Withheld.

I'm still inclined to believe that BT is deliberately trying to scupper their commercial rivals who route calls out of the uk again and back in again by making it seem an inferior product.  Some people do get awfully baffled and puzzled about that International Withheld CLI coming up on their telephone when I call.  I suppose if you are on the BT Privacy free CLI deal BT will think that gives them an exuse for their CLI service being inferior to their rivals such as the mobile phone operators.

BillH wrote on Jan 12^th, 2006 at 4:03pm:


This is not the problem here since 1899 calls provide the caller id every single time when calling my Vodafone mobile in the uk.  The problem is with BT purposely removing CLI information on all incoming international calls in to the UK.

I can also prove this using my Riiing Liechtenstein mobile to call my Vodafone where again the Liechtenstein CLI comes up on my Vodafone but as soon as I call the BT number with the Riiing phone it is shown as International Withheld.  As a logical and deductive person it is obvious that it is BT who choose not to provide me with the CLI even though it is being presented with the information by the incoming international network.

As to OFTEL/Ofcom how bloody typical of this utterly useless organisation to let BT charge for a service that they do not have a contractual obligation to actually provide in every single case where they receive the CLI from the incoming telecoms network.

A call from 1899 to a BT line definitely comes up with International and then either Unavailable or Withheld - can't remember which and as the International bit of a CLI display message is not stored on the CLI unit I would have to ring a relative and then ask them to report what comes up when I call not having a second BT line here to test on.

As for data protection and all that I just don't believe it as I remember most distinctly that 5 or 6 years some international CLIs did come thorugh.  Totally withholding international CLIs seems to be a more recent BT move.  The person who called me today to say my Complaints  Review case on this was Deadlocked said it was a "Business Decision" not to provide it when I challenged her explanation that BT must get the overseas CLI since Vodafone clearly did.

So I will take this to Otelo to see if they are every bit as totally useless as I would expect a telecoms ombudsman to be who list their main phone numbers as 0845 and then show the words Regional against the geographic number.  Sorry but didn't BT abolish the Regional (as distinct from Local and National) call rate at least 8 to 10 years ago now

andy9 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2006 at 1:13am:


No the caller id is being provided by Finarea but the call is routed outside the uk and then back into the uk with the caller id intact but BT has taken a "business decision" to strip all CLIs from incoming international calls to their fixed lines.

If I use my BT line to call any other BT line using 1899 then it is displayed as International Withheld but if I call my uk Vodafone or even my Liechtenstein Riiing mobile from my BT line with 1899 the uk caller id of my BT line is displayed.

When HP's customer service centre in India called my BT line on at least three occasions it was International Withheld but on the one occasion they called my Vodafone the Indian number with Indian country code was displayed.

It is hardly rocket science to conclude that BT is now obstructively withholding all international CLIs outside the uk.  But as I have had caller id for 8 or 9 years my recollection is that International CLIs used to appear in the past on my BT line.

I believe that BT is withholding the CLI of calls that originate in the uk but that route internationally outside it before arriving back in the uk in order to make the phone service offered by its low cost voip competitors seem inferior to its own.  If one looks at some of the lengths BT has gone to in order to stop customers from using CPS with their competitors this conclusion hardly seems unreasonable on my part.

A few more tests with my Liechtenstein Riing mobile reveal that when the call is incoming to my uk BT line this in fact shows as International with no number provided.  As compared to my uk Vodafone where the full Liechtenstein number with country code is shown.

After the call has hung up then reviewing this entry on my Cable & Wireless stand alone Caller Display Unit on my BT line shows Scrolling INTERNATIONAL followed by UNAVAILABLE.  On my BT Decor 310 phone it is just International at the time of the call and International afterwards - no Unavailable displayed.    On my BT Studio 100 DECT phones it just shows INTERNATIONA without the final L.

If anyone else using 1899 or 18866 or 18185 wants to PM me we can do some tests to check what is showed when I am called on my BT line by a 1899 customer.

In fact BT has changed how INTERNATIONAL works on Caller Display as it used to show INTERNATIONAL at the time of the call but then change to UNAVAILABLE or WITHHELD afterwards if you viewed your call log.  But still they do not convey the actual overseas CLI - Why?

jamesbond wrote on Jan 17^th, 2006 at 12:09pm:


Could the problem be that out here in the sticks south of Dorking I am on an old early System X or System Y country exchange and that those exchanges are incapable of passing on CLI on international calls (due to the extended length of the international number) while more modern BT town exchanges with hardware and other upgrades can pass through such information.  Although we finally got a fibre optic cable from Dorking installed in mid 2004 most of the other exchange equipment you can see through the windows of the exchange looks positively steam driven.

If I switch line rental to the Post Office (currently offering £50 cash back on line rental on second and third quarterly bills) and move to making all my outgoing calls via voip and/or through dial through providers like www.dialaround.co.uk who the Post Office can't block it would be interesting to challenge them on a Caller Display service I am forced to pay for being deficient in content.

I have 2 lines, both with 18866 and 1899 facility.

I have just tried ringing each line, using both 18866 & 1899. The CLI came up on all 4 calls with my 01444 xxxxxx numbers, and no "International" or "Witheld".