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Sipura SPA 3000 (Read 15,341 times)
a very nice man
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Sipura SPA 3000
Jan 26th, 2006 at 11:42am
 
I've been looking at the idea of Voip, and through reviews both here and other sites, have come to the conclusion that to get the cheapest calls with the least amount of inconvenience, and with added benefit regarding calling from abrad, that I need a Sipura SPA 3000.

For those not knowing, the BASIC description of the unit is that you can route calls via any preprogrammed supplier (1899, 18185, 0844 access etc) or VOIP. You can also ring from abroad to your unit, activate it and ring out. In other words, ring from Hungary (example) to your UK landline at 10p per min, dial an Hungarian mobile at 1p per min via 0844 for less than Hungarian landline to mobile. Or even call the yanks for 0p per via VOIP (+ call charge at 10p per min from Hungary)

However, the price for this unit in the marketplace varies considerably.
Some suppliers want £79.99 + Government theft duty = £93.99
Other want want £79.99 inclusive (+ or including postage) = £79.99
I have spotted it on the PC World business site for £49.99 + legally imposed theft tax inc postage = £58.74
BIG difference of £35.25 or 37.5% saving!
http://www.pcwb.com/catalogue/item/LKSTEL03?speedtrapid=shopping.com&lead=shoppi...

Can anyone offer a site with a better price? Preferably UK, so if there is bad customer service it can be returned easily (possibly via a window if it's really bad)

The next thing is, has anyone had personal experience of this unit?

A.V.N.M.
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andy9
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2006 at 3:44pm
 
You might also look into Asterisk in Linux on an old PC, even a 486 (I know very little myself)

Errm,  I don't quite understand the call charges mentioned. You can't call a Hungarian mobile from UK landline for 1p a minute, but you could call UK landline from Hungarian landline for 3 or 4p per minute.

Some VoIP providers can do call forwarding, without any hardware set-up at all

And it's worth looking into callback providers too - some can connect any two  phones together, remotely triggered
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2006 at 10:38pm
 
The Sipura 3000 is undoubtedly an excellent bit of kit but I do caution you that its really something of an enthusiasts device and does take a good deal of input on the part of the user to both make sense of what it can do and to set it up to operate seamlessly.

By way of proving this please just take a look at http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13657675 ; where you will find some excellent resources and also the Sipura forum at Voxilla http://voxilla.com/forum-viewforum-f-14.html

There are UK users at www.voipuser.org who can also give advice but mine would be to research a little further to help you decide whether it suits your needs.

Andy's suggestion of using Asterisk is a a good one and will give you more flexibility long term.
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« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2006 at 10:40pm by gray »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2006 at 3:48pm
 
a very nice man wrote on Jan 26th, 2006 at 11:42am:
However, the price for this unit in the marketplace varies considerably.
Some suppliers want £79.99 + Government theft duty = £93.99
Other want want £79.99 inclusive (+ or including postage) = £79.99
I have spotted it on the PC World business site for £49.99 + legally imposed theft tax inc postage = £58.74
BIG difference of £35.25 or 37.5% saving!


You are wrong on the PC World Business price as the price you quote doesn't include shipping at an expensive £9.95 + VAT so the total price delivered is £70.38 including VAT.  This is still significantly cheaper than the next cheapest www.broadbandstuff.co.uk/shopping_cart.php?sort=2a&osCsid=47bb73caa9f20290fc2d0b... who want £78.71 inv VAT + delivery at around £6 so £85 or thereabout.  In fact its only about £20 more than a Linksys PAP2NA delivered from the cheapest supplier.

I like the idea of being able to divert calls on my PSTN home landline number or on a geographic Sipgate Voip number on my local exchange to my Riiing Liechtenstein mobile at negligible cost  and/or to my Vodafone mobile when in the uk at only 1p per minute with www.discountdial.co.uk but am concerned about Quality of Service issues if I use my broadband connection for internet use at the same time.  It seems to get the best out of the Sipura you really need to have separate ADSL wireless router and ethernet modem and then position the Sipura between the two with first the ethernet modem, then the Sipura and then wireless router.  That would mean throwing out or selling my existing Negear DG834G wireless ADSL modem.

I have seen suggested elsewhere that one of these integrated Billion ADSL wireless modem routers with onboard Voip ATA and Qos may be a better bet but I'm sure they couldn't run Asterisk and so on or divert my calls.  What does anyone else think?

Here are the Billion products:- www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopSearch.asp?CategoryID=321

Of course some suggest you can buy a locked Linksys PAP2 and then unlock it but I don't know if this actually works or is reliable.
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2006 at 3:50pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #4 - Jan 29th, 2006 at 4:57pm
 
Surely the concern of quality of service when also using the net is negligable when you consider that you are probably sat near the phone, and as such don't need it diverted to the mobile. If you are out, then you're not on the net.

If you are on the net and a voip call comes through, then I could understand. But the solution surely is to talk with that person, giiving them your attention, then continuing with the net.

I was considering the sipura because of it's advertised capabilities. I'm not too keen on the idea of having another pc on the desk running a software I've never used, just to divert my calls.

My scenarios that I am looking to resolve are...
1 My customers will ring me on my 0800 number, which will point to either my voip or landphone. The solution, whatever it is, will redirect my call using the current cheapest option to my mobile. At the moment that would be 1p per minute. This would avoid a direct 0800 to mobile service at 16p per min + increased service rental. Thus clients can call me free, and all I would pay is £6 for 800 0800 mins monthly + the 1p per min charge to the mobile. I could have 800 minutes of customer call at a cost of £14 per month. Bargain.

2 I could ring my home phone whilst out, and get it to forward the call to the Hungarian number I need.
Thus with the deal offered by mercurymobiles at the moment of 200 x network mins monthly for £50 per year, my call from a mobile would cost (round figures) 3p per min from the mobile to the home, and 0p on voipcheap to an Hungarian landline, or the extotionate rate of 6p per min via bestminutes to their mobile (niftylist has to be updated, they're showing 5p per min. They have been informed) A total of 3 or 9p per min whilst out in the vehicle, UK to Hungary.

Obviously I could stop, and if I didn't have the change for the phone, I could ring my 0800 number and get it to connect me via voip or 0844 depending on the number required. Or if I had change, call home via 0844 and save 2p per min.

I saw mentioned on one site, that voip has a problem with faxes. Something about sending the data in packets. If that is the case, does that mean that whatever unit is placed in the line, sipura or linksys etc, if it was set to use voip for the cheapest landlines, that the unit would have to have an override to avoid it faxing out to a landline via voip?


With regards to the rip off postage rate charged by pc world business, that, as I have now found is something they won't tell you about until you register for an account.

To andy9. You're right about the pricing. It should have read "Hungarian mobile at 5p per min via 0844......."
This would have been correct at time of posting. It would still work out cheaper than dialling directly to an Hungarian mobile from their phones.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #5 - Jan 29th, 2006 at 5:25pm
 
a very nice man wrote on Jan 29th, 2006 at 4:57pm:
With regards to the rip off postage rate charged by pc world business, that, as I have now found is something they won't tell you about until you register for an account..


No need to register with PC World business.  You just put the item in the basket and ask to go to the Checkout.  At this point it adds the postage and VAT on top of the whole lot.

The SPA 3000 is attractive for being able to forward calls to my mobile at 1p per minute or at worst 5p per minute if the DiscountDial deal ends.  Also for being able to forward to my Riing/United Mobile at 4p per minute without people probably realising I am overseas (although there would be a foreign ringing tone of course).  But the new Vodafone Passport deal at only 75p flat for an incoming call in the EU has somewhat worsened the economics against the Sipura here.  However I can also call back to the Sipura at only 75p flat plus 5p per minute on my Vodafone from overseas with the Passport deal on the SmartPlus tariff so again its quite attractive for half hour calls back to uk etc or to other uk mobile of people with me in the country I am visiting.  A slight concern though is my Netgear DG834G ADSL wireless router having a headache and freezing while I am away.  However since I reset to factory settings and then reloaded the latest Firmware over this the problem seems to have gone away.  Getting to the current Firmware through three previous flash upgrades seemed to have caused some kind of corruption that made the DG834G crash from time to time - and only a power cycle would overcome this.

As to quality of service I often use the web when I am talking to someone on the phone since I have had broadband, so I would be concerned about this messing up the call quality a little.  I suspect that when 8MB broadband comes along in the spring even on my BT country exchange and I probably get a 4MB speed here that this will become less of an issue.

I probably will get an SPA 3000 and if the worst comes to the worst sell it on Ebay.  Thanks for the info on the PCBW price which is at least £14 less delivered than anywhere else and only £20 more delivered than a Linksys PAP2NA which has no sophisticated facilities.  If I use voip I can also have a second incoming line for calls related to council matters.

Does the Sipura SPA 3000 not have any meaningful competitors?
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2006 at 5:31pm by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2006 at 12:00pm
 
Good news guys the Sipura SPA-3000 is now in fact available for £64.58 including VAT and delivery from www.microwarehouse.co.uk/catalogue/item/LKSTEL03?speedtrapid=froogle&lead=froogl...; I found this using Google's Froogle search facility.

Other places appeared cheaper but weren't because they charged £10 delivery + VAT on the delivery.

This price is only about £15 more than the much inferior Linksys PAP2-NA unlocked version with VAT and delivery.  Ok I know the locked version is a lot cheaper and can in theory be unlocked but it seems to keep locking itself as soon as you upgrade the firmware etc from what I read.

My call bill with 1899 was £6, although more typically its around £4.   And I expect any moment soon 1899 will put up the connection charge to 4p.  The time has come to make the change to Voip.
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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2006 at 12:02pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2006 at 2:58pm
 
It seems to me that the most attractive possibility in this is using the call diversion via cheap call providers to UK mobiles, and as such represents a bet on the future of these tariffs. Clearly 1p per minute for this cannot last, and maybe 5p is also unsustainable longterm, unless they have racks of GSM phones with spare minutes connected up somewhere.

The other functions can be addressed in other ways. For calling to abroad, O2 or Orange or Virgin contract mobiles can use 07744 callthrough numbers for international destinations, although foreign mobiles tend not to be available off-peak or weekends.

NGM, don't forget that is the off-peak tariff for Vodafone SmartPlus - though as you suggested half-hour calls home, you probably meant this. If you want to make a series of calls, you could use a calling card (or even 1899/18185?) to run them together, pressing # to end each one, but staying connected to Vodafone - paying 1p per minute throughout would be worth the 75p saved per component call. Or, better, can you do this press # with the Sipura? - I'd look into something like that quite closely

I've got a rather non-committal reply from Ratebuster so far about calling Riiing. I was able to call divert to Riiing from landline (7p from O2 mobile), via 2 methods at 9p per minute but both ceased recently so 10p now and may change at any time. There are cheaper possibilities with other foreign SIMs, for both landline and mobile diverted calls, and tariff mistakes on two of them, but that may not last either.

So overall, I don't think it is for me, as I can see other possibilities without the hardware, but will be interested to see how it goes.

Or, can you somehow trigger the Sipura to make two outgoing calls and connect them together, like running your own callback platform? Is this possible in Asterisk? It would be interesting, as then you could first trigger to call your mobile cheaply, get a dial tone, and then call out. Some callback providers can do this via website (wap/gprs?) or sms trigger of course .....
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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2006 at 3:02pm by andy9 »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2006 at 3:17pm
 
andy9 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2006 at 2:58pm:
So overall, I don't think it is for me, as I can see other possibilities without the hardware, but will be interested to see how it goes.

Or, can you somehow trigger the Sipura to make two outgoing calls and connect them together, like running your own callback platform? Is this possible in Asterisk? It would be interesting, as then you could first trigger to call your mobile cheaply, get a dial tone, and then call out. Some callback providers can do this via website (wap/gprs?) or sms trigger of course .....


You seem to be mainly mobile phone based andy9 whereas I am mainly home fixed line based with occasional trips away overseas and still wanting to receive calls.  So I mainly want a Linksys PAP2 NA equivalent ATA for free or near free outgoing calls and then would like a few extra functions on top.  I would like my home PSTN line or a Voip equivalent on the same exchange (with Sipgate) to be able to divert calls free of charge or nearly free of charge to another landline where I sometimes am at the weekend or to a mobile and this device seems like it can do all that.  Also I want the diverson to not be obvious to the caller which I believe this device can achive fairly well.  Some of the voip services you use make it obvious to the caller they aren't calling your home landline.  Also the voip number you use is owned by that company so you are at the mercy of their calling rates for forwarding (whereas I can use Sipgate incoming and then use who I like outgoing)

Your point about bundled minutes on mobiles seems to presume having an expensive mobile contract with those minutes in the first place.  My Vodafone Smartplus call credit has gone down about £3 in the last 6 months!  I make mainly all my calls on landline where I can.  Obviously If I was working out on the road things would be quite different.  Realistically if I was away travelling I would only make and receive a modest number of calls.  Clearly one's average friend or business acquanitance is going to find calling a Liechtenstein number very offputting.  They will perceive it as expensive and won't do it beacuse most people are ignorant on such matters and find it hard to understand how things like dial through services work.  This is what the "I'm a dummy do it for me" convenience of ripoff CPS services from people like TalkTalk are all about.

It seems to me like you don't make fixed line calls from home a lot in the daytime or you are one of those people who has a desktop computer on 24/7 to take voip calls?  I have a notebook I always take with me when I go away so there would be nothing to redirect my voip number with if I didn't have an ATA.

Also I'm factoring in switching to the Post Office and then using Voip for outgoing on everything if I get the Sipura so the £50 Cash Back from the Post Office practically pays for the Sipura device.
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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2006 at 3:18pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2006 at 6:48pm
 
Nice bit of marketing somewhere.
Microwarehouse is a member of the DSG Retail group, which includes Dixons, Currys and of course PC World.

PC World business belongs to..... I'm not typing it again.

So why the difference in price? I don't care because obviously it means I'm going to use the microwarehouse link now. Unless anyone else knows of a better site.

Interesting that the microwarehouse 0870 number, when cross referenced here points to a greater london number for Inmac. As does macwarehouse.The inmac site is headed mirowarehouse inmac. 4 day wait for unit on both sites.
Macwarehouse don't sell the sipura. but same customer service number!

The PC World Business number when cross referenced goes to Genesis communications in manchester. But Genesis don't sell the sipura. Again 4 days.

PC World Business         £49.95 + £9.95 post + vat = £70.38
Inmac                           £49.95 + £9.95 post + vat = £70.38
Microwarehouse             £49.95 + £5.00 post + vat = £64.57   

The only difference is that microwarehouse use a different carrier by the looks of it.
Whoever the carrier is, how the heck does it take 4 days?

However, the links from froogle are mostly useless. If you try to find the sipura on any of the 10 sites they show with it, only a couple will actually have heard of the item on the appropriate advertiser site, and they are mostly the dsg sites.

A.V.N.M
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #10 - Feb 3rd, 2006 at 12:03am
 
Quote:


You seem to be mainly mobile phone based andy9 whereas I am mainly home fixed line based with occasional trips away overseas
~
Your point about bundled minutes on mobiles seems to presume having an expensive mobile contract with those minutes in the first place.  My Vodafone Smartplus call credit has gone down about £3 in the last 6 months!  
~
 Clearly one's average friend or business acquanitance is going to find calling a Liechtenstein number very offputting.  They will perceive it as expensive
~
It seems to me like you don't make fixed line calls from home a lot in the daytime or you are one of those people who has a desktop computer on 24/7 to take voip calls?  I have a notebook I always take with me when I go away so there would be nothing to redirect my voip number with if I didn't have an ATA.

Errr, not quite. I haven't used any VoIP at all yet, but am thinking of the call diversion and callback services of some providers. The cps here has most calls free so I'm not in a big hurry to VoIP for ordinary use.

I wouldn't say I am more mobile based, but I have had contracts with cashback of most of the line rental, such that the last few deals average around £10. I think I mentioned the callthrough operators mainly in response to the OP as I wondered if the ATA at home could be redundant for some of his requirements, as 0870 and foreign calls can be made from some contract-inclusive minutes.

On Riing, nobody has ever rung my actual number. I have had an 0844 number that costs the caller 2p/min from BT, then me 7p to reach me. I could have given them an 0800 number then paid 11p myself, or an 0871 number costing them 9p. Those tariffs have gone up or been discontinued recently, so I've made another arrangement, which could be a lot cheaper, but that's for another thread really.

I'm not arguing with the principle of having and using the facilities that this device will offer, just pointing out that some of those uses are available by other methods, like callthrough or callback, so it is worth some would-be users being a little circumspect about whether it is necessary. If I'm not in, someone else probably is, so we've never done call diversion from the landline. For me, it now looks like diversion of mobile to foreign mobile can't be improved any more, or calling from home to foreign mobile same price as UK ones.

But can you dial in to this unit, then choose the routing out from the remote location, as that could have some interesting possibilities? I believe you can dial in or out via VoIP or pstn, but I don't know how pre-programmed or flexible it is.

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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006 at 12:06am by andy9 »  
 
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2006 at 8:44am
 
andy9 wrote on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 12:03am:
If I'm not in, someone else probably is, so we've never done call diversion from the landline.


Whereas if I'm not in then definitely nobody else is ever.  So may be that's why the Sipura call redirection possibilities appeal more to me.  But I am concerned my Netgear DG834G ADSL Wireless Modem has no Qos management so won't give priority to Voip ahead of internet traffic.  And yes I do often use the internet when speaking to someone on the phone.

Quote:
But can you dial in to this unit, then choose the routing out from the remote location, as that could have some interesting possibilities? I believe you can dial in or out via VoIP or pstn, but I don't know how pre-programmed or flexible it is.


Yes you can call in via PSTN and use Voip calling out or call in via voip and use PSTN out according to all the promotional literature.  It won't do a callback to you as far as I know although may be that is a hidden feature in the dialling plans you can set up.  It seems to be able to do more if you run Asterisk with it but for that you have to have a dedicated PC server running back at home 24/7.  Even so it appears to do quite a lot standalone.

It seems to cost about 30 quid anyhow for a decent USB phone to attach to the laptop so if I spend the 65 quid I have somthing that also runs when my PC is off, redirects calls and supports my existing DECT phones for Voip.  And lets me save 50 quid by trying out the Post Office for line rental.  And saves the £4 or so a month I currently spend with 1899 on my daytime calls.  I now have JustDial CPS but I expect before long CPW will end free evening and weekend calls for existing users.
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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2006 at 8:45am by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Sipura SPA 3000
Reply #12 - Feb 4th, 2006 at 2:20pm
 
andy9 wrote on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 12:03am:
On Riing, nobody has ever rung my actual number. I have had an 0844 number that costs the caller 2p/min from BT, then me 7p to reach me. I could have given them an 0800 number then paid 11p myself, or an 0871 number costing them 9p. Those tariffs have gone up or been discontinued recently, so I've made another arrangement, which could be a lot cheaper, but that's for another thread really.


Just-Dial Saver says they charge 4.9p per minute to all Liechtenstein numbers on their website.  Or at least they don't list a separate mobile rate for Liechtenstein when they do show one for all the other larger EU and Efta states.

I have just moved across to Just-Dial Saver thinking that voip was too much hassle but with me probably being turned back into a TalkTalk Talk1 customer by CPW any time soon by force it may be time to move on to the Post Office and or to using Voip in conjunction with it.
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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2006 at 7:47pm by Dave »  
 
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