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Northamptonshire police.. (Read 72,555 times)
mc661
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #30 - Feb 11th, 2006 at 11:00pm
 
"When the time came to set up a new joint project with the Fire Brigade and the County Council, ("PROJECT ELVIS"), we had a further requirement of a memorable number for members of the public to report abandoned and arson damaged vehicles. Again Windsor Telecom exceeded our expectations and were able to provide an extremely memorable number ending '999' for this project."

Hmm ELVIS has left the building, but left his rip-off script.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #31 - Feb 12th, 2006 at 1:33am
 
mc661 wrote on Feb 11th, 2006 at 11:00pm:
Hmm ELVIS has left the building, but left his rip-off script.


I was beginning to think you had left the building mc661.  Its good to know that you are still with us.
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bigjohn
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #32 - Feb 12th, 2006 at 10:27am
 
Quote:
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 11th, 2006 at 6:03pm:
I intend to.  Isn't Google great? http://www.windsor-telecom.co.uk/testimonials.htm
It seems the Chief Constable of Northants Police is Smart by name but not by nature.


Dont overpromote him Smart is only a Chief Inspector. Peter Maddison is the Chief Constable.You can contact  him here http://www.northants.police.uk/survey/askchief_form.htm
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2006 at 10:30am by bigjohn »  

BJ.
 
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saynonto0871
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A response from Northamptonshire police..
Reply #33 - Feb 23rd, 2006 at 5:56pm
 
A Response to my email from Northants Police,
Please see their response below, I have already noted a few points that need clarifying, for example: "our new -8453 number is indeed charged at local rates"

However on the plus side: "whilst we do not have much communication from overseas via the telephone (most comes via the website), we will publish a non 08453 DDI telephone number to field those calls." & they've added this to their webpage:    
"Disclaimer, Calls to 0845 numbers from a fixed line are charged to a maximum of 4p per minute. Network Tariffs apply when calling 0845 numbers from a mobile phone." though they still say on the same page that it's charged at normal local rates.

Your views please...


Quote:
Dear Mr ****

Your communication relating to our new 08453 has been passed to me by the Chief Constable to investigate and respond to.

Thank you very much for raising your concerns with the Police Authority, and for the useful links which you sent. As a result of your comments and advice we have amended our publicity which should implemented on our website imminently. We are committed to the non-emergency number, as within the county it ensures that callers can call from landlines at local rate. We have checked with the local telephony service providers for landline base phones and they have confirmed that our new -8453 number is indeed charged at local rates. Our view on mobile telephony is that the caller has the choice of contacting the police via a number of media (landline, mobile, email, and even text - something we are investigating) and so when ringing on non-emergency business, it is down to the caller to make the choice of landline or mobile, and a note will be added to publicity to warn callers that charges from mobile networks may vary. However, we have also contacted the five main mobile cellular telephony providers and have confirmed that the maximum/worst case scenarios for charges to call an 08453 number are as follows:

    * Three Mobile = 15p /min flat charge
    * Orange = 10p/ min - 35p/ min (dependant on tariff)
    * Vodaphone = 12p/ min - 15p/ min
    * O2 = 8p/ min
    * T- Mobile - 10p/ min - 40p/ min (pay as you go being the maximum)
    * Virgin - 10p/ min - 15p/ min

We do not consider these to be any more prohibitive than other choices offered to mobile telephone users.

You query whether this 08453 provision makes profit for the police. I can confirm that no revenue is raised by introduction of this number, although there may be in-house savings in due course as we will be able to release costly direct dial number rentals. So it isn't the case that there is a payment to the police to profit from the use of the 08453 number. That information will also be noted on our website or material publicising the number, so that this suspicion is allayed.

You made a very good point regarding the small print on some of our 08453 material. We have looked at this and I confirm that the ASA-recommended small print will be added to our website and publicity material.

Finally, whilst we do not have much communication from overseas via the telephone (most comes via the website), we will publish a non 08453 DDI telephone number to field those calls.

In closing, I advise you that the local introduction of this number is in advance of talks in hand to introduce a national non-emergency number over the next five or so years, currently being trialled in some parts of the country - a venture which will involve other public agencies so that if a call does not relate to a police matter, it can be directly fielded to a colleague from another agency who can deal with it. It's early stages as yet, but this is clearly the way that our communications are going. There is also a huge thirst to contact us via internet and we are investing in exploiting that facility too. We have checked a number of police websites to check our practice against theirs, and we don't appear to be at odds with them.

Introducing this 08453 number was all about making contact with us easier and simpler. Our problem is that we are served by a number of telephone exchanges, and it was simply impossible for our telephony provider to offer us the single number you suggested, in a way which would make it compatible with those various exchanges. This is why the 08453 number is being phased in before the older DDI numbers are phased out.

I hope that this assures you of our resolve to respond to some of the very valid points you made. Thank you for that opportunity

Yours sincerely

****
Staff Officer to Chief Constable

Landline 08543 700700 (ext 2***)
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2006 at 6:53pm by saynonto0871 »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: A response from Northamptonshire police..
Reply #34 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:19pm
 
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 23rd, 2006 at 5:56pm:
"whilst we do not have much communication from overseas [color=#cc3300][/color]via the telephone (most comes via the website), we will publish a non 08453 DDI telephone number to field those calls."


Now could it perhaps be that most of their overseas customers contact them via the website precisely because of the exorbitant cost of calling them on your mobile if you are overseas and your house is burgled.  Far cheaper after all to drop in to a web cafe for half an hour than to call for 25 minutes at up to £1 a minute. Shocked

Quote:
Our view on mobile telephony is that the caller has the choice of contacting the police via a number of media (landline, mobile, email, and even text - something we are investigating) and so when ringing on non-emergency business, it is down to the caller to make the choice of landline or mobile

   * Three Mobile = 15p /min flat charge
   * Orange = 10p/ min - 35p/ min (dependant on tariff)
   * Vodaphone = 12p/ min - 15p/ min
   * O2 = 8p/ min
   * T- Mobile - 10p/ min - 40p/ min (pay as you go being the maximum)
   * Virgin - 10p/ min - 15p/ min.


But there is no choice about calling them using the most efficient call tariff and routing path if they fail to publish a geograpic phone number is there now. Roll Eyes

And in the above tariff listing they completely fail to mention that all the above companies completely exclude 0845 from their bundled inclusive minutes (apart from O2) and also from deals like Vodafone Stop the Clock and Vodafone Passport.  Still they maintain it is no worse than calling an 01 or 02 number from a mobile.  Quite Incredible.  It hardly helps with the traditional view that many of those working in the uk Police force are of somewhat limited intelligence. Cry
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:19pm by N/A »  
 
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saynonto0871
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #35 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 6:58pm
 
Never mind the fact that some of those mobile to NGN rates are actually wrong.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #36 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 7:51pm
 
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 6:58pm:
Never mind the fact that some of those mobile to NGN rates are actually wrong.

Surely you aren't suggesting that members of her majesty's constabulary would ever manufacture evidence? Wink
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mc661
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #37 - Feb 26th, 2006 at 2:56pm
 
*cough* herts *cough*
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #38 - Feb 26th, 2006 at 2:59pm
 
Quote:
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 6:58pm:
Never mind the fact that some of those mobile to NGN rates are actually wrong.

Surely you aren't suggesting that members of her majesty's constabulary would ever manufacture evidence? Wink
No comment, sir!

I have an alibi, if needed, that can be contact on 0871x at the cost of a local call!   Grin
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saynonto0871
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #39 - Feb 27th, 2006 at 8:04pm
 
They have now added this to the website "If you are telephoning Northamptonshire Police from abroad please dial +44 1604 888007"
But still say 0845 "calls are charged at normal local rates"
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2006 at 8:05pm by saynonto0871 »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #40 - Feb 27th, 2006 at 9:41pm
 
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 27th, 2006 at 8:04pm:
They have now added this to the website "If you are telephoning Northamptonshire Police from abroad please dial +44 1604 888007".  But still say 0845 "calls are charged at normal local rates"


May I suggest you quote to Northants Police that they may be in breach of various ASA guidances, Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987 and Best Practice guidances from Ofcom.

See  

Para 1.3 Page 1 of www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/oftel_0845/responses/leicester_cc.pdf

and

www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/Hanging+on+the+telephone+on+and+on+and+ on.htm

and

www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/Stop+the+call+confusion.htm

and

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=28872%09%09%09%09%09%09%09&...; amp;SESSION=875

and

www.cap.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/CAP+rings+the+changes+for+telecoms+prov iders.htm

and Pages 5 and 6 of the below minutes from my own district council where we agreed policy to stop the future use of 0845 and 0870 numbers.

www.molevalley.gov.uk/media/pdf/1/s/Council_Minutes_190705.pdf
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2006 at 9:46pm by N/A »  
 
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saynonto0871
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #41 - Feb 28th, 2006 at 8:12am
 
Way back in the thread you'll see. ASA won't investigate, they say it's public info not advertising.
The only reason they've changed the website at all is because of my complaint pointing out ASA guadance. But because they're tels supplier calls it local rate they insist on leaving that on the page even while adding the price from BT which isn't local rate.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #42 - Feb 28th, 2006 at 8:42am
 
Then place more reliance on the above guidance from Leicestershire Trading Standards and this one I have just found from East Sussex Trading Standards on 0845 and 0870 numbers:-

www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/735C4641-4E0A-48DA-BA19-8A5007CE0AB6/0/BSN080...

Also the paragraph entitled Consumer Protection on Page 3 of this ICSTIS document.

www.icstis.org.uk/pdfs/ConsultRespNTS1105.pdf
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saynonto0871
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #43 - Feb 28th, 2006 at 8:46pm
 
Cheers NGM.
I have now emailed them again citing further Legal & regulatory implications of failing to display correct pricing info for 0845 numbers as well as making an example of your council who saw the light.
I also pointed out that the glowing endorsement of Winsdor Telecom by their Chief Inspector will not sit well with the public when that very same company are in breach of CAP guidelines.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Northamptonshire police..
Reply #44 - Feb 28th, 2006 at 9:17pm
 
saynonto0871 wrote on Feb 28th, 2006 at 8:46pm:
Cheers NGM.
I have now emailed them again citing further Legal & regulatory implications of failing to display correct pricing info for 0845 numbers as well as making an example of your council who saw the light.


I suggest you also copy in all the County Councillor members of the Police Authority since they are much more susceptible to public pressure than Policemen who have a habit of suggesting that anyone who questions police actions is some kind of dangerous deviant.

They are all conveniently listed here and this includes the personal email addresses for more than half of them:-

www.northants.police.uk/asp_default.asp?action=article&ID=2158#3

You can get the official County Council email addresses for each of the remaining ones who do not have an email address shown on the Northants Police Authority website here:

www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/Democracy/councillors/details/?complist=all
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2006 at 9:18pm by N/A »  
 
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