SAYNOTO0870.COM - Post Office £50 + another £15

Red Dave

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #15 - Feb 20^th, 2006 at 8:58pm

Okay, I think I've done the maths correctly, so here goes. Providing that I can continue to use 1899, 18185, Dial Around, Discount Dial, etc., then my main call cost will be evening and weekend local calls.

I'm just moving to Primus Saver Option 2 (from TalkTalk 1+12, since the free evening and weekend calls have expired). Since it's CPS, it's not going to work on Post Office's HomePhone (am I right there, aren't I?!). So, I figure it's a case of how much is saved by moving to the Post Office versus how much time I'm going to spend on evening/weekend local/national calls. Sounds about right?!

Here goes:

BT line rental (BT Together Option 1) £10.99/month, Post Office £9.95/month, monthly saving £1.04.
£15.00 cash back from GreasyPalm
£50.00 cash back from Post Office (if staying with them for six months, as previously discussed).

Six month saving is (£1.04 x 6 + £15 + £50) = £71.24 (thank you very much!)

At 1ppm that's a massive 7,124 minutes! Which gives 1,187 minutes/month or 19 hours, 47 minutes, which is loads more than I use at the moment.

So, even paying for local/national evening/weekend calls, it'll still be cheaper to ditch BT line rental and Primus Saver Option 2 and move over to the Post Office, for size months at least.

Now, who's going to be kind enough to double check my sums?!!

RDD

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #16 - Feb 20^th, 2006 at 10:33pm

You will definitely be able to use Dialaround and DicountDial as these will be shown on you Post Office phone bill at the same prices as when they were on your TalkTalk bill.

Once you have moved to the Post Office try a couple of calls with 1899 and 18185 and then log on to your online statements with 1899 and 18185 and check thos calls are listed there. Next log on to your Post Office account after a day or two (in case they run a day or two behind like BT do) and check they are not listed there. If not you know 1899 and 18185 continue to work as normal.

All your calculations on the line rental and cashbacks sound correct to me.

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Red Dave

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #17 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 12:31pm

Another thing I forgot to check (doh!) is broadband. I've already got broadband on my phone line which I'm (relatively!) happy with and I don't want it touched at all!! The FAQs do say that broadband won't be affected, but has anyone already tried it?

Details of any experiences would be appreciated!

Thanks,
RDD

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #18 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 1:47pm

Red Dave wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 12:31pm:

Another thing I forgot to check (doh!) is broadband. I've already got broadband on my phone line which I'm (relatively!) happy with and I don't want it touched at all!! The FAQs do say that broadband won't be affected, but has anyone already tried it?

Details of any experiences would be appreciated!

Broadband is supplied by BT Wholesale/Openreach direct to your ISP who then bill you for the broadband service. It has nothing to do with phone services on your PSTN phone line. All that happens with Wholesale Line Rental is that your calls are billed to TalkTalk or PostOffice or whoever using CPS and they then put them on their bill which now also contains a charge for line rental which they subcontract from BT Wholesale/OpenReach and then charge to you at a slightly different rate from BT. You no longer get the BT Phone line rental bill.

But your broadband service at the exchange level is supplied by BT Wholesale/OpenReach direct to your ISP who bill your ISP for the connection between you and your exchange and on to your ISP's nearest major hub. Switching to the PostOffice or TalkTalk etc for line rental has no impact whatsoever on your broadband service.

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Red Dave

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #19 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 2:20pm

Thanks for the reply NGM!!

I thought I had a fairly good handle on things, but all this new-fangled stuff is so fast moving Wink

So Wholesale Line Rental a la Post Office, TalkTalk, etc. would be a half-way house between a standard BT line with them billing for line rental and calls, and a LLU'ed line with someone like Bulldog? With a LLU provider, you don't have a choice in ISP or alternative call carriers (like 1899, etc.), do you?

What I'm trying to acheive, like most of the people here I guess, is the best bargaining position and therefore the best cost savings. I don't like the idea of moving to a LLU'ed line if I'm forced to pay their call charges and broadband charges. My broadband link is used for our home work, so we don't want any hassle there!

Thanks for your help NGM.

RDD

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #20 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 2:42pm

Red Dave wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 2:20pm:

So Wholesale Line Rental a la Post Office, TalkTalk, etc. would be a half-way house between a standard BT line with them billing for line rental and calls, and a LLU'ed line with someone like Bulldog? With a LLU provider, you don't have a choice in ISP or alternative call carriers (like 1899, etc.), do you?

What I'm trying to acheive, like most of the people here I guess, is the best bargaining position and therefore the best cost savings. I don't like the idea of moving to a LLU'ed line if I'm forced to pay their call charges and broadband charges. My broadband link is used for our home work, so we don't want any hassle there!

LLU exists in some larger phone exchanges in towns where your internet provider installs their own equipment so as to handle the broadband connection directly instead of subcontracting it from BT wholesale (they do this beacuse it is cheaper to do it themselves than pay BT's standard wholesale ADSL charges on big exchanges). Most LLU internet providers still require you to rent the phone line service from BT although in theory you could just have an LLU broadband connection and not have to pay BT line rental any more and make all your calls using Voip. However as the AOL's and Wanadoos of this world think cutting off normal phone service alogether is too complicated for most customers they mainly still force you to take BT phone line rental as well to have their LLU broadband service - even though they could let you opt out of any phone line rental while having a broadband connection if they wanted to. Also as LLU equipment is only in big phone exchanges but these companies offer broadband on all ADSL exchanges they may think it was too complicated to let you opt out of the BT line rental just on their LLU phone exchanges.

To summarise Post Office HomePhone changes who you pay some of your phone line rental to and has no impact on broadband services. Only your ISP is responsible for your broadband connection. Post Office HomePhone won't even know you have broadband on the phone line as the technology underlying wholesale line rental is still CPS call billing and its then just an accounting exercise with Post Office then also billing you for line rental at a lower rate for line rental as they have paid for it in bulk from BT at wholesale rates. Its still BT's phone line on their phone equipment at their exchange though. Same thing as you change electricity supplier but you stilll have the same electricity meter on the wall and the same electricity coming out of your plugs.

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trevord Full Member Offline Posts: 248 West Sussex, UK Gender:	Re: Post Office £50 + another £15 Reply #21 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 5:59pm Quote: ... the same electricity coming out of your plugs. I didn't know there were different kinds of electricity unless, of course, you go to the U.S. of A. or some other obscure place, where they have an (allegedly) less dangerous kind!
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #22 - Feb 21^st, 2006 at 11:04pm

trevord wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 5:59pm:

I didn't know there were different kinds of electricity Tongue

unless, of course, you go to the U.S. of A. or some other obscure place, where they have an (allegedly) less dangerous kind! Tongue

Lots of different kinds of electricity actually. Electricity from oil, electricity from coal, electricity from gas, hydro electricity from dam generators, other renewable electricity especially from wind farms and last and most controversially nuclear electricity, which may or may not be the only way we can meet future demand at affordable prices. There is also possibility of future electricty from Fusion which will be great if anyone can ever develope a process that makes it work - see www.absw.org.uk/Documents/Briefings/Fusion-final.pdf#search='electricity%20fusion'

The electricity coming out of your plug at home will be a blend that mainly reflects the overall blend of electricity being pushed into the national grid from various sources favoured by different electricity supply companies. However if enough people change supplier to a Green electricity company then eventually the blend in the national grid will contain more Green energy content than hitherto.

As to the US of A I understand it is they and Canada who have the safe 115V electricity (far less likely to kill you if you touch a live supply) and the rest of the world who has the more dangerous but more effective to use and transport 220 to 240v sort. In the UK any extra danger from the 240v supply is probably offset by our uniquely high safety 1970s plug design but in the rest of Europe with their old low tech two pronged plugs they may be running more risks.

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mc661 Senior Member Offline Habitual FOI requester. Posts: 432 West-Norfolk Gender:	Re: Post Office £50 + another £15 Reply #23 - Feb 22^nd, 2006 at 9:52am you forgot wave generators lol. do the US have circut breakers like we do?
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Red Dave

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #24 - Feb 22^nd, 2006 at 12:33pm

Quote:

trevord wrote on Feb 20^th, 2006 at 12:20am:

Apologies if I was wrong - I was just going on what they told me. Embarrassed

It appears that pre-existing 1899 and 18185 access carries on as normal although the Post Office are of course not exactly overly keen to confirm this.

Just got this reply from their e-mail contact address:

Quote:

Good Morning,

Thank you for your e-mail.

You will not be able to use CPS after transfer however you will still be able to route certain calls througha different network with a pre-fix number.

0844 calls are charged at slightly differing tariffs depending upon the next part of the number, so if you have some specific numbers we will be happy to give you that information.

We hope this has helped , if you have any further queries please let us know.

Kind Regards

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: 21/02/2006
To: service@homephone.postoffice.co.uk
Subject: Pre-sign-up questions

Dear HomePhone team,

I have a couple of questions that I'd like to clear up before signing-up to the Post Office's HomePhone service:
a.. I currently use a Carrier Pre Select (CPS) provider for my calls, will I be able to continue to use this carrier after moving my line rental to the Post Office?
b.. I make use of some other carriers for some calls by dialling their network access code prior to the telephone number required (as in 1280 for BT). Will I still be able to use these codes with no extra charges from yourself?
c.. What are your charges for 0844 calls? I understand that companies who use these numbers can determine the call cost per minute, i.e. there's no one rate for all 0844 numbers. Does the Post Office honour the rates as set out by the company providing the number?

Regards

So it looks like we're green to go!! No surprise about the CPS line (especially in light of NGM's recent comments) but excellent confirmation of being able to use prefix codes and 0844 numbers.

RDD.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #25 - Feb 22^nd, 2006 at 12:48pm

Red Dave wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2006 at 12:33pm:

So it looks like we're green to go!! No surprise about the CPS line (especially in light of NGM's recent comments) but excellent confirmation of being able to use prefix codes and 0844 numbers.

RDD.

This list on the Post Office website shows you what they charge for all uk NGNs. Basically their prices are the same as BT for anything like www.dialaround.co.uk, www.dialwise.co.uk, www.bestminutes.co.uk etc that I have checked on.

ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/po/Pricing%206b.pdf

They do reserve the right to withdraw your indirect access but I think its unlikely at this stage when they are still so keen to build up subscriber numbers. Even if they do you can always use the dial through numbers with Dialaround etc, etc and you can always transfer back to BT if the worst comes to the worst.

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cowman

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #26 - Feb 28^th, 2006 at 1:49pm

Is there a way to get ADSL broadband without taking a BT or Cable line rental? I'm guessing not from what was said in earlier posts.

A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line.
I believe she will now have to stay with BT for 3 months(contract T&C) before she can move to the post office, by which time the £50 offer will have finished! Does this sound right?

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Ntlworld cut me off, lost password, re-registered!!

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #27 - Feb 28^th, 2006 at 2:45pm

cowman wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 1:49pm:

Is there a way to get ADSL broadband without taking a BT or Cable line rental? I'm guessing not from what was said in earlier posts.

A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line.
I believe she will now have to stay with BT for 3 months(contract T&C) before she can move to the post office, by which time the £50 offer will have finished! Does this sound right?

You can't currently have broadband on a line physically cabled and provided by BT (regardless of who may bill you for the line rental using WLR) without also taking PSTN phone service unless you are on what's called an unbundled exchange (exchange where AOL, Tiscali etc have their own equipment and you may already be getting 8MB broadband service ahead of BT launching their product). Even then it depends on whether the unbundled broadband povider wants to let you not take phone service too. People like Tiscali may be very keen to force you to also take their conventional phone service too so you pay them higher monthly rental.

However with cable my understanding is that NTL and Tellewest are very willing to sell you a broadband internet service without requiring you to pay them for a basic phone service with them as well.

Ofcom is meant to be doing something about forcing BT to offer what is called Naked DSL some time soon but even then you will still have to pay something to BT for maintaining the copper phone line on top of what you pay your broadband provider it would appear.

As to what the Post Office is saying about having to go to BT first that does seem odd. I would ask for the complaint to be escalated to a higher level at the Post Office for internal review. I can't see how WLR can be a worthwhile product if it means people always having to rent direct from BT at the start.

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Shiggaddi

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #28 - Feb 28^th, 2006 at 3:31pm

I have signed up to the service, going through greasypalm, and just awaiting further communication as to when the service will be switched etc.

At the moment I currently have Caller display free of charge. When the Post office take over the line rental, I would imagine I would firstly get a rebate from BT for the advance line rental already paid, along with a bill for advance line rental from the post office.

But what happens to my caller display. Is it automatically removed, or does the post office sneakily take over all my current features with BT, and charge for them at their own rates?

I'm happy with free caller display, but I think the post office charge about £3 a month for it, which I'm not willing to pay, but if I have to cancel it before the line rental starts, I'd rather get that out the way so I don't get any nasty surprizes!!

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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Post Office £50 + another £15
Reply #29 - Feb 28^th, 2006 at 4:03pm

Shiggaddi wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 3:31pm:

But what happens to my caller display. Is it automatically removed, or does the post office sneakily take over all my current features with BT, and charge for them at their own rates?

I'm happy with free caller display, but I think the post office charge about £3 a month for it, which I'm not willing to pay, but if I have to cancel it before the line rental starts, I'd rather get that out the way so I don't get any nasty surprizes!!

Why don't you phone the Post Office on their normally rapidly answered 0800 number for post sales and ask them. As their staff appear to be rather more helpful than BT's or TalkTalk's I'm sure they should know what the situation is, especially as their staff are also all in the UK. Wink

Caller Display costs £1.75 per month or £5.25 per quarter with the Post Office according to their own price list for Call Features at ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/po/HomePhone Features v6.pdf

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« Last Edit: Feb 28^th, 2006 at 4:04pm by N/A »

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