SAYNOTO0870.COM - Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan

idb

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #135 - May 10^th, 2006 at 9:47pm

Another deceitful tactic by the regulator is that it apparently no longer publishes responses to consultations until after the closing date, so that those looking for ideas and advice in preparing their own submissions, come up with bugger all when looking at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/responses/

This is just so typically Ofcomesque. WHat a bunch of inept and twisted individuals - they will do ANYTHING to maintain the NGN fraud.

Just who is lining whose pockets? Who has their greedy finger in the pot?

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #136 - May 10^th, 2006 at 11:40pm

idb wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 9:47pm:

This is just so typically Ofcomesque. WHat a bunch of inept and twisted individuals - they will do ANYTHING to maintain the NGN fraud.

Just who is lining whose pockets? Who has their greedy finger in the pot?

I increasingly think of Stephen Carter and Tony Blair in the same moment.

Both completely past their sell by date and knowing they are soon to get the boot so becoming ever more cavalier and arrogant by the month.

We now need not only a procedure for getting rid of Tony Blair but also of Stephen Carter, David Currie and the whole non consumer interest protecting Ofcom board, including all of its particularly weak willed and spineless Non Executive Directors. It is the direction of Ofcom at the top that is so completely wrong and has been so utterly corrupted as I am sure that those lower down do understand the interest of the consumer and are capable of implementing it if only this was given to them as being their primary mission.

And before anyone tries to blame Ofcom's policy of running an old boys club for the telecoms industy on the contents of the Communications Act 2003 I do not believe that it is the Act that is the problem. The problem is Ofcom and its senior employees and the way government ministers are allowing them to get away with interpreting the Communciations Act. Angry

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idb

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #137 - May 10^th, 2006 at 11:49pm

I have now decided to respond to this consultation. It will be short, unlike my previous efforts. It will focus on the fact that Ofcom has wholly ignored what was an unprecedented public response to the NTS consultation and allege that Ofcom is complicit in this massive scandal. Lord Cater of Southwark will, one day, have to answer for his agency's incompetence. When the UK has another major 'incident' (plane crash, terrorism, whatever), and the idiots issue what will then be 0871 numbers (of course now regulated by ICSTIS), Carter and his cronies will have to answer to someone.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #138 - May 10^th, 2006 at 11:57pm

idb wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 11:49pm:

Lord Cater of Southwark will, one day, have to answer for his agency's incompetence.

For one awful moment I really did think Carter might have got the peerage from Blair that he so craves but I see that although there is indeed a Lord Carter on the Ofcom Advisory Committee for Disabled People it is fortunately not Mr Stephen Carter.

See www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/adv_cmmt_older_disabled/biogs/

Of course after Blair appointed Waheed Ali to the House of Lords I became increasingly aware that New Labour is unfortunately capabale of awarding peerages to almost anyone. Especially if they do New Labour's bidding or make generous donations to party funds Wink

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« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2006 at 8:06am by N/A »

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nanstallon

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #139 - May 11^th, 2006 at 6:08am

As far as I'm concerned, gongs, peerages, etc don't mean a thing these days as they are awarded/decided by people who don't command my respect any longer. Look at Lord Archer, who has enjoyed some of Her Majesty's hospitality lately. Who'd want to join a club of which the likes of him are members? I suppose the attendance allowances at the Hopiuse of Lords may be persuasive. The honours should go to people who have served the community without financial reward, or at least done their jobs conscientiously without creeeping around the likes of Blair etc.

Back to topic, it is probably right to answer the consultation, or Ofcom will say we had our chance and didn't bother. Even if our contribution makes no difference to the outcome, at least we shall have tried!

John

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gdh82

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #140 - May 11^th, 2006 at 8:54am

idb wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 9:47pm:

Another deceitful tactic by the regulator is that it apparently no longer publishes responses to consultations until after the closing date, so that those looking for ideas and advice in preparing their own submissions, come up with bugger all when looking at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/responses/

Agree completely, idb, so thought I'd ask Ofcom themselves - you never know I might get a response Grin

Quote:

Dear Ofcom,

I write to query the lack of published responses during the numbering review consultation at the site:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/responses/

This is very disappointing and seems to run counter to previous Ofcom practice:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/

On the one hand it seems that Ofcom is proposing a numbering scheme that is open, accessible and easily understood but on the other hand its consultation on the subject is closed, inaccessible and very complicated to understand (e.g an off-puting 61-question response from). Having a more open consultation would allow for greater debate and for more informed participation - surely this is something that Ofcom could support ?

I would be very grateful if you could offer some explanation for this apparent change in policy.

Regards

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #141 - May 11^th, 2006 at 9:32am

Did you email this to Ofcom's Consultation Champion vikki.nash@ofcom.org.uk and copy it to their consumer policy head claudio.pollack@ofcom.org.uk and to Communications Director matt.peacock@ofcom.org.uk, Chief Executive stephen.carter@ofcom.org.uk and Head of the Ofcom Consumer Panel, colette.bowe@ofcomconsumerpanel.org.uk?

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gdh82 Full Member Offline Posts: 226	Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan Reply #142 - May 11^th, 2006 at 9:49am I hadn't but I have now! Thanks NGM
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gdh82

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #143 - May 11^th, 2006 at 12:45pm

Within a couple of hours Shocked

of emailing Ofcom regarding the lack of published responses, I received a reply from Nic Green who I understand is managing the numbering consultation:

Quote:

>From: "Nic Green" <Nicholas.Green@ofcom.org.uk>

>Subject: Re: lack of published responses to the numbering review consultation?
>Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 11:31:12 +0100
>
>Dear
>
>There has been no general change of policy. Unfortunately the process
>has not run as smoothly as I would have liked in this case - for various
>reasons - but I expect to be putting responses up on the site in the
>next few working days, and aim to have them all posted by the end of
>next week.
>
>On the issue of the consultation document itself, it was structured so
>as to cover the issues in a more general way in the main sections
>(accompanied by 23 general questions) and then to cover more detail in
>the annexes, with the remaining questions being more of a technical
>nature, for those specialists and communications industry insiders more
>able to comment on those issues. Unfortunately the scope of the document
>is wide, and we wanted to gather views on many things, which made it
>hard to limit the total number of questions.
>
>But I take your point, which some others have made, and I'll review the
>lessons to learn from this. If nothing else, perhaps it wasn't clear
>enough that a) people can completely pick & choose which questions to
>reply to, and b) that the questions indicate what we want to know but
>people can if they want reply in a different format (which some do).
>
>
>Thanks for your feedback.
>
>
>Regards
>
>Nic Green
>
>
>
>

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« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2006 at 12:46pm by gdh82 »

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #144 - May 11^th, 2006 at 1:23pm

Some individual members of Ofcom staff are relatively diligent and conscientious.

The main problem is the overall remit that they are working under coming down to them from Stephen Carter, David Currie and other members of the Ofcom board.

This tends to ignore Ofcom's primary duty to uk citizens and consumers under part 3(i) of the Communications Act 2003 and instead spends far more time worrying about the sections of the Communications Act 2003 that talk about avoiding imposing unnecessary regulatory burdens on telecoms companies. These two things (consumer interests and commercial interests) are often in conflict but when this is the case Ofcom seems to prefer to give priority to the needs of telecoms businesses even though its primary duty under the Communications Act is the needs of uk citizens and consumers. Ofcom tries to get round this by claiming that all further deregulation stimulates additional competition and so is in the best interests of uk citizen consumers. Roll Eyes

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gdh82

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #145 - May 11^th, 2006 at 2:09pm

Quote:

Ofcom tries to get round this by claiming that all further deregulation stimulates additional competition and so is in the best interests of uk citizen consumers. Roll Eyes

On the point of Ofcom's primary duty (and this is something I raised the other day in another thread) but I wondered if we expect too much of Ofcom given the defintion of how Ofcom protects consumer interests...

gdh82 wrote on May 8^th, 2006 at 4:23pm:

Quote:

What's the point in Ofcom having all those powers but decide not to use them in case they upset the teleco's? Regardless to the fact that we are being robbed/mislead and yet Ofcom's statutory duties:-

3 (1) It shall be the principal duty of Ofcom, in carrying out their functions;
(a) to further the interests of citizens in relation to communications matters; and
(b) to further the interests of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting competition seem to be ignored.

I very much agree with you both, bbb_uk and Dave, and feel increasingly dispondent about Ofcom's inaction. I could be completely wrong about this but looking more closely at the definition of their function maybe we are expecting too much of Ofcom ! It states that their means of furthering the interests of consumers is

by promoting competition

. The phrase 'by promoting competition' sounds pretty toothless to me, and maybe having an '03' range to compete with revenue sharing '08s' could illustrate this ? Its certainly different to furthering the interests of consumers by applying fines and taking direct action against those that scam the general public.

Having said that, I'm feeling even more depressed, and am very probably talking about matters I know very little about ! Undecided

So treat this a desperate question from a despondent SayNo member !

I realise this is a fundamental question and I'm not sticking up for Ofcom or anything but what do others think ?

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« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2006 at 4:49pm by gdh82 »

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gdh82 Full Member Offline Posts: 226	Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan Reply #146 - May 17^th, 2006 at 12:52pm Just to let others know, Ofcom have now began posting responses (about 20 so far) to this consultation ... http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/responses/ Now need some time to read them
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omy

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #147 - May 18^th, 2006 at 6:12am

Ofcom excelling themselves in the format of this 'Consultation'!
The number of questions and their complexity is enough to put anyone off trying to read the responses, let alone take the time to make a reply. But this is clearly an obvious tactic to 'kick the matter into the long grass again'.
Game set and match to Ofcom (and their government masters) I reckon - we do get the government we deserve.

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gdh82

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #148 - May 19^th, 2006 at 7:59am

omy wrote on May 18^th, 2006 at 6:12am:

The number of questions and their complexity is enough to put anyone off trying to read the responses, let alone take the time to make a reply.

I completely agree Omy but, as put off as we feel, we can't let this beat us so I'm still going to respond and will probably throw in a few paragraphs raising this point as well ! Wink

For my own benefit, and in case this helps anyone else, I've boiled down the original 61 questions to those 'key' questions below which I plan to focus my submission on:

Quote:

Question 1:What are your views on the strategic principles that Ofcom proposes to apply to its numbering policy decisions?

Question 2:What do you think are consumers’ key current views on numbering, how do you think those views will change, and how should Ofcom’s current decisions take those changes into account?

Question 8: Do you agree with Ofcom’s proposal to open a new ‘03’ number range for non-geographic, non-revenue sharing services?

Question 9:How should the ‘03’ range be structured, in terms of tariffs and services ?

Question 10:How should the ‘08’ range be structured, in terms of tariffs and services?

Question 11:Which broad approach should Ofcom take to structuring the ‘09’ range, and if a re-structured ‘09’ range is preferred how would you arrange the different types of ‘09’ services (e.g., according to price per minute, price per call, inclusion of adult content)?

Question 14: Do you agree that personal numbers should have a tariff ceiling (or recorded message) to restore trust in those numbers? If so, what level, and should that ceiling include the cost of recorded messages?

Question 15: Do you agree with Ofcom’s proposals to move personal numbers (with the same consumer protection provisions) to the ‘06’ range and to pursue the direct allocation of numbers to end users as proposed at some point in the future?

Question 16: Do you have any comments on the use of the 05 number range?

Question 17: Do you agree that Ofcom’s overall proposals for a future Numbering Plan are coherent and comprehensive, and do you have any comments on the timescales in which the changes should be implemented ?

Question 19: Do you support the proposal to extend the tariffing provisions of the Numbering Plan so that they apply to customers of all providers on all types of network?

Question 20:How do you think the new Numbering Plan could be effectively communicated to consumers?

Question 34: Do you agree with Ofcom’s assessment of the problems with current 08 and 09 in terms of information clarity and consumer perceptions?

Question 35:Which of these options for current 08 services do you think is best in terms of a) increasing consumer transparency and b) minimising the costs of re-structuring the 08 range?

Question 36:How might early migration to the ‘03’ range be encouraged?

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« Last Edit: May 19^th, 2006 at 8:04am by gdh82 »

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Dave

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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #149 - May 19^th, 2006 at 4:26pm

gdh82 wrote on May 19^th, 2006 at 7:59am:

For my own benefit, and in case this helps anyone else, I've boiled down the original 61 questions to those 'key' questions below which I plan to focus my submission on...

I'm ploughing through the document and I've just come across question 6:
Quote:

Question 6 Do you agree that the use of overlay codes is the best backstop approach in the event that extended conservation measures are not sufficient to meet demand for geographic numbers?

I think that the issues of what is done when an STD area code runs out of numbers is very relevant to all consumers. In short, in all areas the actual percentage of numbers in use is less than 30%. Therefore, IMHO Ofcom needs to spend more time ensuring that those numbers that have been given out to communication providers are used effectively. Why Ofcom gives out 10,000 numbers to VoIP in one area code, Lord knows! Roll Eyes

To have overlay codes where one area will have two codes seems rediculous. What's the point in a code?

I know that this was discussed at length as being the solution implemented in the US here. My personal view is that those few areas in need of extra capacity be migrated to 3 digit codes (excluding leading zero). But at the end of the day, why has this been allowed to happen?

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« Last Edit: May 19^th, 2006 at 4:26pm by Dave »

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