Tanllan wrote on Jul 20^th, 2006 at 9:52am:
When it comes to Ofcom staff the words Feather and Bed always seem to be inextricably linked

Hi darkstar,

Thanks for the information.

I do hope it is good news from BT.  It will be interesting to see how BT  price 0870, 0871, 0845, 0844 and 070.

Notice how Ofcom is removing this piece of regulation immediately but will only start to do anything about 0870 until next year. 

I should hope that BT's prices will not rise any more, especially as they went up [supposedly] to allow others to compete. What a joke; they just followed by raising their prices!

From NTL's Customerupdate
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Notice how NTL uses the word 'changing' instead of 'increasing', in an effort to make it sound not as bad as it really is.

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I thought that the outcome was that companies were given [another] year to rip off customers before making 0870 charged at geographical rates?! 

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I have pay as you go dial-up accounts with (as was) Freeserve and BT Internet. Up until a few months ago both were on 0845 numbers, which they had used for years. Now they have been replaced by 0844 numbers...

I'm thinking about creating a timeline that can be kept up to date with all this sort of stuff on. It would be especially useful to any journalists out there. It could have events like the following on it:

• Removal of BT Standard
• Consultations on NTS and this one, amongst others
• Price changes for telephone packages (not just BT's). So NTL's price rise that it shamefully says is to bring it "in line" with its "key competitors" (see here) could go on there.
• Introducation of BT Privacy making caller display free that was closely followed by a 50p increase for everyone.
• Other micro increases like charging for calling number back on 1471 by dialling 3 and speaking clock.

Dave wrote on Jul 21^st, 2006 at 4:27pm:


Its not like you to be so easily hoodwinked Dave.  After all I think we all originally hoped for the changes to only take place one year after the Ofcom consultation document published in December 2004?  Or perhaps even the OFTEL consulation document that closed in December 2003.

I quote from PP 51 and 52 of Ofcom's NTS:A Way Forward Statement  published on 19th April 2006 - www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/statement/statement.pdf

Para 4.136 "Ofcom acccepts that some SPs may require more than 12 months lead time, to plan for the move to a new number range.  One of the benefits of allowing more time is that it will reduce the costs associated with number migration"

Para 4.139 "In the light of the above Ofcom has concluded that the proposed changes for 0870 calls (i.e resoration of the geographic link and removal of 0870 calls from the scope of the NTS condition) should be implemented 18th months after the publication date of the Numbering Review Statement.  On current plans, this means that the changes will come into effect in January 2008

Note the "on current plans" as we all know about Ofcom slippage!.  So one can imagine that 2008 could even easily become late 2008 or start of 2009!

darkstar wrote on Jul 21^st, 2006 at 10:57pm:
I personally don't have a problem with BT being able to compete fairly my only concern is that they have the power now to raise prices as they still have significant market power (SMP).

If BT want to compete with others then why is that the following price rises have happenend - much of which weren't so long ago:-

1.   Line rental on BT Together Option 1 from £10.50 to £11.00 per month
2.   Extension of daytime rate to start at 6am instead of 8am
3.   Minimum call charge from 5p to 5.5p (6p for business)
4.   Evening/weekend rate after 1 hour from 1p to 3p per minute
5.   Call charge to Speaking Clock 123 from 20p to 30p
6.   Minimum call charge on public payphones from 20p to 30p
7.   Introduction of £5 late payment charge
8.   Call charge to directory enquiries 118500 from 15p to 23p per minute plus 40p connection charge
9.   Ring back charge from 10p to 15p per use - chargeable even if not connected after 45 minutes trying
10. Introduction of call return fee of 6p for pressing 3 after 1471
11. Introduction of call return fee of 7.5p for pressing 0 after 1571
12. New installation connection fee increased from £75 to £125

Now if BT want to be competitive then why introduce all these increases?  I realise they couldn't lower these prices but why not keep some prices the same?  What is happening is that when BT increase their prices the others just follow and do the same - this is confirmed with the linerental increase where TalkTalk, Telewest/NTL, etc have just followed by example.  Where is the competition here?

For us to use the cheapest possible provider and allow us to use multiple suppliers we need to keep our linerental with BT.  BT are fully aware of this and this is why they increased the linerental for those on Option 1 (their now basic lowest tier package) but those on Option 2 or 3, the linerental stayed the same?

Another example is the extension of the daytime rate and minimum call rates, etc - most other competitors (the main ones specifically) just increased theirs as well!  Again, where is the competition?

Most responses to this consultation expressed concern over the promises that BT had given to Ofcom about certain things - they were concerned about why it has been kept a secret, etc?  Most also expressed concern over lack of "real" competition!

I use the term "real" competition like that that exists for tariffs offered by the mobile networks.  These mobile tariffs (inclusive mins/txts) and other general things like free weekend calls to landline and any UK mobile, etc are competitive as evidence proves that when one network introduces things like free weekend calls, money back for topping up your PAYG phone then others have followed suite.

I realise that competition doesn't exist for prices to NGN's and these so-called free mins/offers, etc are subject to some other t&c but this is normal practice as in this country we very, very rarely get anything for free without some kind of t&c attached to it.

In fact all responses except those few mentioned by Ofcom were not in favour (or fully support) Ofcom's recommended option but yet, as usual, Ofcom ignored all these and went with their recommended option.

This is bad on its own but Ofcom went one further in their consultation outcome by making it sound that most responses were in favour of their recommended option but this is clearly misleading if you read the actual responses!

darkstar wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2006 at 7:45am:
If I remember correctly, Ofcom did an investigation into the costs involved for maintaining the copper wiring, etc and it was about £8/£9 (please someone correct me if I'm wrong   ).

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That's the same spiel that BT used which is common for companies to use spiel like this to cover the reason for the increase.  "Simplifing prices" is another spiel used to hide the fact that prices are going up.

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BT only have to pay other people for calls that may not end on their own network and given the number of customers on BT this is not likely to be high.  Look at the flip-side where the likes of TalkTalk, Primus, etc can still have lower minimum call charges but yet they pay more because all calls made from their network will end up on other teleco's like BT, Telewest/NTL, etc.

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I agree petty but some women can gab forever including some kids and I can imagine some forgetting to hang-up the phone before the hour as they're too into their conversation to realise the time.  I realise this doesn't happen often but it still happens and it is still a price increase none the less.

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For obvious reasons - ie to increase their prices

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I agree the upkeep of payphones maybe expensive but the cost of making calls from them I'm guessing can probably cover this - especially if one makes the mistake of making a call to a 07, 084x/087x, 09x number (the 08x numbers are very common these days).

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Some people maybe in financial trouble and have probs paying.  How can it cost £5 to follow up when its done automatically by your computers - the only cost is the paper/ink/envelope and the couple of seconds it takes someone to put it in an envelope.  £5 per account that is overdue based on the above sounds like BT are making money from those that do unfortunately pay late.

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Again obviously to just increase charges and get more money

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I don't think I need to mention why the price increased!

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Similar to above

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As above

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Although I don't like the increase I can see the reasons for this as I know sending an engineer out would cost BT a lot, including the new wiring required and connection to the local exchange.  As reconnections are currently (for how long now?) free then I can see that that reconnections are subsidised by new connections - maybe?

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Is there anything else they can increase that they haven't already recently done?

As for BT losing customers then I can see this being only small as most people even though they may use another supplier for calls, still pay BT for linerental. So BT may lose some of theirprofits when this happens but if they didn't keep increasing them then it wouldn't be as bad.

The only time BT really lose customers must be those that take linerental and calls from a supplier like TalkTalk.