SAYNOTO0870.COM - BT Price changes from 1/8/2006

orsonkart Ex Member	Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006 Reply #30 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:03pm I have both a Virgin Payg Phone and a Virgin Contract Phone and i am not charged when ringing tone starts, only if the call is answered.
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orsonkart

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #31 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:07pm

Dave wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 11:44am:

Jolly wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 11:29am:

When making calls from a mobile you are charged from when the phone at the other end rings, not from when it is answered. ...

No you are not. You are not charged for the engaged tone, ringing tone or the message telling you that the mobile phone is unavailable.

Voicemail services and O2's CallAlert that sends a text to the receiver are chargeable.

Now that the 'pence per minute' of a call doesn't relate to the actual average pence per minute, would it be misleading for it to be advertised without the "setup fee", or without the same prominance as the "setup fee"?

So when BT states that calls on such and such a package cost "5 pence per minute", that is misleading because the actual cost will include 3p on top. In addition, rounding up to the nearest minute leaves the call rate meaning nothing; it's more a minimum call rate (as shown above).

I hope that makes sense, just wondering if there is any way that they can be caught out with the way they promote these services. Would there be any grounds for a complaint to ASA?

Excellent point guess we will have to see how they word it when their new literature etc comes.

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Dave

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #32 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:10pm

I've just thought about changing the title of this thread as prices aren't being reduced per se. Then I realised that the replacement of the minimum charge with connection charge and the whole minute charging will not come into effect until 1 October, that's after these 'reductions' made today get good press. Who's betting that BT will have a promotion or something around 1 October? A bit like politicians burying bad news. Roll Eyes

The other thing is that all mobiles will be charged the same, except for 3 (Hutchison 3G) at 13p/min in the daytime, meaning that the minimum charge for a call to a mobile will be 16p!

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« Last Edit: Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:19pm by Dave »

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jrawle

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #33 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:25pm

Jolly wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 11:59am:

I'm on Virgin mobile and I pay by direct-debit (not sure the name of the package but there's no monthly charge - just call charges). The last time I checked, which admittedly was about 6 months ago, I was always being charged for calling a number and then hitting the red hang-up button on my phone before the call was answered. I will try this again today and check my bill next month to see if anything has changed...

I'm on Virgin, but not direct debit (in fact I've still yet to top up after nearly 2 years...) and it definitaly does not charge if the call isn't answered.

What sort of number are you calling when this happens? Are you calling someone's mobile or landline where they have voicemail? If the phone is engaged it goes straight through to the voicemail, so in that case you will be charged.

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jrawle

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #34 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:27pm

Dave wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 12:10pm:

I've just thought about changing the title of this thread as prices aren't being reduced per se. Then I realised that the replacement of the minimum charge with connection charge and the whole minute charging will not come into effect until 1 October, that's after these 'reductions' made today get good press. Who's betting that BT will have a promotion or something around 1 October? A bit like politicians burying bad news. Roll Eyes

In October, won't the news from BT be that calls to 0870 and 0845 are being reduced? The introduction of the setup fee and rounding up will be in the small print at the bottom.

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Dave

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #35 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 2:46pm

So, for those who are staying on BT, what are the differences in the packages that would benefit moving up? Are they really as good as people will think they are?

Mobile rates/charges are the same on all options, so during comparisons forget what you spend on mobile calls. Indeed, it's probably worth signing up for 18185 for mobile calls. The only difference is with calls to geographical (01/02) numbers.

BT Together Option 2 costs £3.95 more than Option 1 and includes all evening and weekend calls upto 1 hour. Daytime calls are the same as with Option 1. So the £3.95 covers all those 5.5ps for upto 1 hour.

That means that if you make 72 or more evening and weekend calls to geographical numbers you will benefit. Make less and you will be better off on Option 1. The question is, will people realise this or will they just 'guess' how many calls they make and move according to their perception of the 'Options'? Will they realise that mobile calls don't figure in the equation?

To go to Option 3 it costs £9.95. If each call costs an average of 6p, that's an equivalent of 166 calls.

The point is that it's reasonable for one to imagine that Option 2 is better than Option 1. But only at the evening and weekend; oh and remember BT has already had its axe on that; 6am to 8am are now part of the daytime.

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« Last Edit: Aug 1^st, 2006 at 2:49pm by Dave »

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Dave

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"Call Set-up Fee" - More than meets the eye?
Reply #36 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 4:53pm

Quote:

Call Set-up Fee
From 1st October 2006, the minimum call charge of 5.5p for residential customers will be replaced by a call set-up fee of 3p that will be charged at the start of each phone call.

Why not call it a connection charge? Therefore will this apply to all calls; even those that ring unanswered?

I have always assumed that legislation such as the Communications Act prevented charging for:

The initial ringing tone
Engaged tone
Unavailable; as in the case of a mobile phone out of coverage area or switched off
Out of service; number unobtainable (NU) or not receiving incoming calls

Thus, the widespread prevailence of answering services and Ringback when the line is engaged.

Can someone clarify this?

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jrawle

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Re: "Call Set-up Fee" - More than meets the eye?
Reply #37 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 5:42pm

Dave wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Call Set-up Fee
From 1st October 2006, the minimum call charge of 5.5p for residential customers will be replaced by a call set-up fee of 3p that will be charged at the start of each phone call.

Why not call it a connection charge? Therefore will this apply to all calls; even those that ring unanswered?

"The start of the call" surely means when you start talking. If it's unanswered the call hasn't been "set up" any more than it's been "connected".

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lompos

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Re: "Call Set-up Fee" - More than meets the eye?
Reply #38 - Aug 1^st, 2006 at 8:19pm

jrawle wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 5:42pm:

Dave wrote on Aug 1^st, 2006 at 4:53pm:

Quote:

Call Set-up Fee
From 1st October 2006, the minimum call charge of 5.5p for residential customers will be replaced by a call set-up fee of 3p that will be charged at the start of each phone call.

Why not call it a connection charge? Therefore will this apply to all calls; even those that ring unanswered?

"The start of the call" surely means when you start talking. If it's unanswered the call hasn't been "set up" any more than it's been "connected".

You may or may not be right. A clarification from BT as to when exactly the 3p connection charge kicks in would be useful.

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kk

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Re: BT Price changes from 1/8/2006
Reply #39 - Aug 2^nd, 2006 at 7:30am

In my previous post on 31 July (#18) I showed that:

The average 15 minute call used to cost 45p (15 x 3p)
Now it will cost: 3p connection fee plus 45p (15 x 3p) plus 1.5p** = 49.5p. A 10% increase

**With the introduction of “whole minute charging”, if the call is just under a whole minute then the cost of the last minute will be 3p. If the call is just over a whole minute then the “last minute” will cost an extra 3p. Statistically, half the calls will be under and half over the payment threshhold, the probability of going over is about 50%. So the average increase will be 1.5p.

[based on the UK wide call rate of 3ppm for telephoning all locations in the UK during "business hours"]

Can anybody tell me the average length of a call, including the source for that information.

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KK

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Heinz

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #40 - Aug 18^th, 2006 at 7:18pm

Justin wrote on Jul 31^st, 2006 at 6:52pm:

I would love to know what Talktalk plan on doing because they promise to be cheaper then BT and with these new prices BT will be cheaper. I hope this means a price war between the companys

Don't worry, TT have been sure to exclude 08 numbers from that so-called price promise.

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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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jrawle

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BT Privacy: Revised Terms & Conditions
Reply #41 - Aug 19^th, 2006 at 10:47pm

I recieved a "Changes to BT's Pricing and Terms & Conditions" leaflet today. Most of the contents is what we already know. However, I noticed the BT Privacy T&Cs, effective from 1 October.

Customers must make two chargeable calls with BT every month, otherwise they will pay £1.75 a month for caller display!

I know this is partly aimed at CPS customers, and they even tell you how to use the 1280 prefix. But what about people who have paid for option 2 or 3, and only make "free" calls to geographical numbers? Presumably these are not "chargeable" calls, so anyone who only calls geographical and freephone numbers might find they are paying an extra £1.75 a month to BT! So this is another sneaky price increase.

With a "call set-up fee" and whole minute charging, this means there is a minimum amount customers have to spend each month. I guess the best numbers to call might be 0845 numbers at the weekend (which will be 0.5p/min) so caller display will cost 7p per month!

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Shiggaddi

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Re: BT Price changes from 1/8/2006
Reply #42 - Aug 20^th, 2006 at 9:41am

I didn't even get a leaflet, as BT have decided that because I registered my account details online about 2 years ago, they decided about 6 months ago that I no longer wanted paper bills.

Recently I needed to open a savings account and needed 2 pieces of ID to prove my address, and had to come up with my inactive Natwest account statement (as my A&L account is online only) and I couldn't use a utility bill as I'm still at home with my parents, but I do have a phone line in my room but BT is now paperless!!

Post office homephone never got around to connecting me despite a few calls, and even though they set up my direct debit.

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bbb_uk

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Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006
Reply #43 - Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 4:23pm

Dave wrote on Jul 31^st, 2006 at 6:23pm:

Whole minute charging will not apply to 08 NTS...

There appears to be a discrepancy!

The t&c printed on their website here state that the whole minute charging will not apply to NTS calls, etc but yet we got a letter from BT informing us of their new prices and a booklet of changes to the t&c, and under "Whole Minute Charging", I quote the following:-
Quote:

From 1st October 2006, each call will be rounded up to the next whole minute for national and local geographical calls, international calls, landline-to-mobile calls, premium rate service calls and NTS calls (e.g. 0845, 0870)....

I've read this several times and I've definitely read it correctly so the obvious question is which version of their t&c is correct? I suspect it is that latter one that I got through the post simply because this would mean more money for BT!

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: BT cut prices of call packages from 1/8/2006 Reply #44 - Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 4:29pm bbb_uk wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 4:23pm: There appears to be a discrepancy! Interesting, bbb_uk. I thought that perhaps the who minute charging won't apply to 09 calls is because they can cost up to £1.50 pence per minute, the minimum charge for a call to such a number will be £1.53.
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