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0845 NUMBERS (Read 21,884 times)
rydaway
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0845 NUMBERS
Aug 7th, 2006 at 6:21pm
 
Is anybody please able to comment whether 0845 (local rate) telephone numbers are "revenue sharing" numbers?  i.e. the charge punter pays is "shared" between the number holder and the service provider.

Thanks.
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rydaway
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #1 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 6:48pm
 
0845 are not actually local rate anymore.  They were well over a year ago but due to falling prices in geographial calls (those beginning 01x or 02x) and a few other things, they are not classed as local rate anymore although many still believe it to be local rate because it has been known as local rate for so long.

As for the "revenue sharing", well it is possible for 0845 to be revenue sharing for the end company but if revenue sharing does exist then it is only a few pence compared to higher numbers like 0870/0871 numbers.  In all cases, regardless of the number, the teleco who owns these numbers does get a cut of the revenue sharing which they may choose to pass on to the end company.

0870, on the other hand, does mean revenue sharing simply because of the cost of the calls between both numbers 3ppm (0845) compared to 7.5ppm (0870)
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Shiggaddi
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #2 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 6:50pm
 
rydaway wrote on Aug 7th, 2006 at 6:21pm:
Is anybody please able to comment whether 0845 (local rate) telephone numbers are "revenue sharing" numbers?  i.e. the charge punter pays is "shared" between the number holder and the service provider.

Thanks.



In short, yes they are revenue generating.

There are some telco suppliers that do pay for incoming calls on their numbers during the day, but at the most this is about 0.5p per minute.  I don't think any telco would pay for evening and weekend calls.

This is alot less than 0870 numbers.  However although many telcos don't pay out for customers receiving calls on the 0845 number, the telco certainly gets a slice of the profits, which means these numbers cannot be included in mobile inclusive minutes, or landline unlimited calls.

Also, any company that does say they don't receive revenue is not telling the whole truth.  Telcos use some of their profits to supply companies free voicemail, switching equipment, and telecoms equipment, which if they operated a normal geo number they would have to pay for.
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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Dave
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #3 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 7:57am
 
The best example where revenue sharing [almost] definately takes place is with pay as you go dial-up ISPs. The high volume of calls presumably makes it worthwhile for revenue to be paid to the ISP.

I don't think that revenue sharing is the principal issue; more the fact that these numbers cost more than a geographical call. It is this extra premium that (presumably) is the mechanism that allows for revenue sharing and greater profiteering by the telcos as a whole.
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orsonkart
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #4 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 11:18am
 
Although its possible to get a Free 0845 number these days  with Free Connection,no call charges,no revenue share  and no line rental.
Its worth noting that some suppliers of 0845 numbers still charge the organisation using  the 0845 number  for  the 0845 inbound  call, as well as what the person dialling it pays.
EG. Good old BT.  http://www.bt.com/store/product/detail.jsp?oid=265426
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orsonkart
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #5 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 11:20am
 
Quote:
Although its possible to get a Free 0845 number these days  with Free Connection,no call charges,no revenue share  and no line rental.
Its worth noting that some suppliers of 0845 numbers still charge the organisation using  the 0845 number  for  part of the cost of the  0845 inbound  call, as well as what the person dialling it pays.
EG. Good old BT.  http://www.bt.com/store/product/detail.jsp?oid=265426


"We invoice you for part of the cost of calls to that number, at rates which depend on the package you select "
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« Last Edit: Aug 8th, 2006 at 11:20am by N/A »  
 
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farci
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #6 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 11:25am
 
Quote:
Although its possible to get a Free 0845 number these days  with Free Connection,no call charges,no revenue share  and no line rental.
Its worth noting that some suppliers of 0845 numbers still charge the organisation using  the 0845 number  for  the 0845 inbound  call, as well as what the person dialling it pays.
EG. Good old BT.  http://www.bt.com/store/product/detail.jsp?oid=265426


If you read the BT site mentioned by Orsonkart, it lists:

Benefits
Offering a BT 0845 number sends a clear message to new and existing customers: 'We value your custom so much that it will only cost you 4p per minute to contact us, wherever you are in the country.'

To put it an other way:
'Offering a BT 0845 number sends a clear message to new and existing customers: 'We think you're a bunch of mugs paying us way more than the going rate for a phone call. Welcome suckers!'  Grin
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kk
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 8:18pm
 
For the vast majority of callers, calling a 01 or 02 numbers from a landline will cost 3p/min, at most, for a call to ANY location in the UK.  From a BT call box, calling a 01 or 02 number  will cost about 2p/minute (10p connection fee and a min call charge of 20p for 15 mins - total 30p)

Calling a 0845 number from a landline will cost 4p/minute -  33% more than calling a 01/02 number.

Calling a 0845 number from a call box will cost 10p for 55 seconds - 550% more than calling a 01/02 number.

The BT marketing information regarding “BT 0845" is totally dishonest and conveys the message that organisations using  “BT 0845"  will benefit customers by only charging  4p/min.  The above illustrates that most callers to “BT 0845" will incur greater call costs.

The disadvantage to BT customers on Options 2 and 3 are more marked, as 0845 numbers are excluded from Option 2 and 3.

I intend to make a formal complaint to Ofcom about the marketing of “BT 0845" as the supporting information from BT materially misrepresents the cost to customers and to organisation who may be induced to use “BT 0845" in the belief that they offer a cost advantage to customers.
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« Last Edit: Aug 8th, 2006 at 8:21pm by kk »  

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bbb_uk
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #8 - Aug 9th, 2006 at 8:16am
 
Quote:
Benefits
Offering a BT 0845 number sends a clear message to new and existing customers: 'We value your custom so much that it will only cost you 4p per minute to contact us, wherever you are in the country.'
From the way I see it, it's misleading because:-

1. They make it sound like these calls are cheaper than ordinary calls because they "only" cost 4ppm.
2. Another point is the, "4p per minute to contact us, wherever you are in the country", is also misleading by making out that regardless of which teleco (including mobile) you use to call these numbers, you only pay 4ppm.  This is actually different from ASA guidelines that stipulate that companies most make clear that its only from BT lines and other teleco's (especially mobiles) will cost more.

If you look at the spiel for 0870 here, a similar line also exists:-
Quote:
Using BT 0870, customers calling your business from anywhere in the UK pay 8p (inc VAT) per minute.
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« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2006 at 8:23am by bbb_uk »  
 
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jrawle
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #9 - Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:30pm
 
kk wrote on Aug 8th, 2006 at 8:18pm:
For the vast majority of callers, calling a 01 or 02 numbers from a landline will cost 3p/min, at most, for a call to ANY location in the UK.  From a BT call box, calling a 01 or 02 number  will cost about 2p/minute (10p connection fee and a min call charge of 20p for 15 mins - total 30p)

Calling a 0845 number from a landline will cost 4p/minute -  33% more than calling a 01/02 number.

Actually, 0845 is only 3p/min during the daytime with Option 1, so it's the same as a geographical call. So daytime 0845 is only really a problem for people with an inclusive calls package.
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:38pm
 
jrawle wrote on Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:30pm:
Actually, 0845 is only 3p/min during the daytime with Option 1, so it's the same as a geographical call. So daytime 0845 is only really a problem for people with an inclusive calls package.

And when geographical numbers are charged per minute, many daytime calls to 0845 on Option 1 will be cheaper than geographical numbers as 0845 will be billed to the nearest second.
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kk
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2006 at 5:16pm
 
Thanks bbb.uk for your comment and link to "BT 0870".


The "BT 0870" link you provide, has the following statement:

"Customers may not perceive charges to your nationwide number as expensive"

My translation of the above BT statement is:
Customers using BT 0870 may not realise they are being cheated by the use of this very handy clandestine premium rate number.
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KK
 
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derrick
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #12 - Aug 10th, 2006 at 5:20pm
 
Dave wrote on Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:38pm:
jrawle wrote on Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:30pm:
Actually, 0845 is only 3p/min during the daytime with Option 1, so it's the same as a geographical call. So daytime 0845 is only really a problem for people with an inclusive calls package.

And when geographical numbers are charged per minute, many daytime calls to 0845 on Option 1 will be cheaper than geographical numbers as 0845 will be billed to the nearest second.


But geo numbers can cost as little as 3p per call,(when using 1899), whereas 0845 will always be racking up your phone bill while you wait in the queue, and you know what they cost from mobiles, (not included in most free minutes packages), and payphones.

Not like you Dave to fall for that one, or have I missed something?


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jrawle
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #13 - Aug 10th, 2006 at 6:02pm
 
derrick wrote on Aug 10th, 2006 at 5:20pm:
Dave wrote on Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:38pm:
And when geographical numbers are charged per minute, many daytime calls to 0845 on Option 1 will be cheaper than geographical numbers as 0845 will be billed to the nearest second.


But geo numbers can cost as little as 3p per call,(when using 1899), whereas 0845 will always be racking up your phone bill while you wait in the queue, and you know what they cost from mobiles, (not included in most free minutes packages), and payphones.

Not like you Dave to fall for that one, or have I missed something?

The bit you've missed is highlighted. No-one's saying 0845 numbers are good in general! But it does show it's best not to assume 0845 is always a worse option from all lines.
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Re: 0845 NUMBERS
Reply #14 - Aug 10th, 2006 at 6:28pm
 
derrick wrote on Aug 10th, 2006 at 5:20pm:
But geo numbers can cost as little as 3p per call,(when using 1899), whereas 0845 will always be racking up your phone bill while you wait in the queue, and you know what they cost from mobiles, (not included in most free minutes packages), and payphones.

Not like you Dave to fall for that one, or have I missed something?
I suspect Dave was only referring to when the call is made via BT and not the cheaper options available.

The thing about comparing 0845 to geographical calls is that they will only really be compared with BT as they (BT) are the biggest/well known teleco hence reason why during the daytime, 0845 is technically charged at the same rate (ppm) as a geographical.  Obviously, from other teleco's like TT, Primus, etc there is a difference and during the evening & weekend then there is also a difference.

Companies operating NGN's will generally comment that 0845 is charged at the same rate as geographical calls and then go on to say that its up to the consumer which teleco they choose.

The thing is that many companies and gov depts are not aware of the likes of Call1899, etc and are not aware that NGNs are not included in any inclusive tariffs us consumers may have hence the reason why gov depts/companies say its up to the teleco and for us consumers to choose a better/more suitable tariff.  This lack of knowledge I believe is down to the fact that 0845 was known as local rate for so long and they are not aware that it costs teleco's more when calling an NGN than it does to carry a normal geographical call - simply due to the underlying nature of how many teleco's may be involved in carrying the call and the revenue sharing between so many teleco's (including in some cases the end company/gov dept).
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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2006 at 6:30pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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