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i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestions? (Read 19,892 times)
jasonc310771
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i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestions?
Aug 23rd, 2006 at 3:24pm
 
I have a community web site and wish to allow visitors from anywhere in the country to contact us on a local rate number like 0845, i have looked around but most of them ask for a setup fee or line rentals and such.

please can anyone reading this suggest what you beleive is a fair company that does not abuse the 0845 charges by charging more than a local rate, also one that is free to setup free to us in every way!

yes we ask a lot but they do make money from the calls they get!

thanks in advance for your help.

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Heinz
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DON'T USE 0845 NUMBERS EITHER
Reply #1 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 3:37pm
 
Welcome to the SayNo forums jasonc310771.

Thank heavens you came here before you did anything.

If you live in London and use a BT residential line, it costs EXACTLY THE SAME to call another London number as it does to call an Exeter or Edinburgh or Dover number.

The terms 'local call' and 'national call' have been meaningless since 1st July 2004 when BT forced all residential customers onto their BT Together Option 1/2/3 packages.  Calls cost 3p per minute* weekdays and 5.5p for up to an hour evenings and weekends.

* Subject, at the moment, to a 5.5p minimum call charge but, w.e.f. 1st October 2006, subject instead to a 3p call set up fee.

Referring to 0845 numbers as 'local rate' is misleading and, now, specifically barred by the Advertising Standards Authority (although most firms ignore such ineffective organisations and continue with the lie).

Additionally, many people now use a prefix-dial company ( www.call1899.,co.uk ) and make their calls to UK 01 and 02 numbers for 3p each (that's 3p connection and 0p per minute) - so you would penalise (alienate might be a better word) such people because calling an 0845 number would be more expensive than calling an 01 or 02 number.  Others have inclusive call packages allowing them to make unlimited calls to UK 01 and 02 numbers (but not to 084 or 087 numbers) for no additional charge - so you'd alienate them too.
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:04pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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jasonc310771
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #2 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 3:48pm
 
ok, i have a telewest landline and live in south east london.

the service i WAS getting cost nothing, not a penny, no setup no fees no annual, nothing ziltch.

but they messed up and have lost the number i wanted to use i was able to choose the number.

now i have waited long enough for them to get back to me and nothing still weeks gone by.....

so need to find something like this but also needs to only cost the same as a local call, ie  if they we next door to me and called it would be the same as if they called my landline nubmer.

any other suggestions?


thanks again.
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Heinz
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 3:53pm
 
I think you've missed the point.  It may have been costing YOU nothing but it was costing customers extra.

You must have been paying a landline rental of some sort.

As I said, there's no such thing as a 'local call' any more.  All calls to geographical numbers are charged at the same rates.

Get an 020 number - more people will like you for not attempting to rip them off with the "It's only the cost of a local call" lie.
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:03pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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bbb_uk
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #4 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:14pm
 
As mentioned earlier, 0845 isn't local rate and you will in fact be charging your customers more for calling an 0845 than a normal geographical number beginning with 01 or 02.

Check out the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) website here and here which confirm that 0845 can not be described as local rate because it no longer exists and in fact costs more than normal/geographical calls.

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Dave
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #5 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:15pm
 
Hello jasonc310771, the best number you can provide is a geographical (01/02) one. The main phone packages these days charge all calls to these numbers at the same rate, regardless of the location of caller and receiver.

The BT Light User scheme is one example of where this is not the case, but for other packages that do charge the same for both, you won't find one that charges the same for 0845 numbers (or any other non-geographical numbers for that matter).

There is a new 03 prefix that is coming into operation that will be non-geographical and charge the same as 01/02 numbers. This will also be included in inclusive packages where calls to 01/02 numbers are covered. At present, 0845 and other NGNs are always chargeable.

From mobiles and payphones, 0845 numbers are often more expensive than geographicals aswell.
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jasonc310771
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #6 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:33pm
 
i see all of your points, but as i said i have a landline i pay a rental charge for my own 0208 number and wish to have visitors a number to call that 'does not rip them off' (the point of asking here!) [sorry]

i have visitors all over the world and most of course from the UK, i wish to allow visitors a chance to call if they want that is, no obligation, a local rate cheep call as if they were to call a neighbour, at present if my visitors call my 0208 number from lets say scotland! it will cost them far more than if they were to call an 0845 local rate number at 3/4/5 p  or what ever it is, i will also have the number listed where it is needed and also have the charges it cost once i have checked it out myself after calling it and also by getting info from the company to post so visitors can see it is cheep and not a rip off.

i do not and never want to 'rip people off'  i have had this done to me a few times, yes a bit of a fool i am, but none the less i know what it is like so do not and will not do to others.

hope someone can provide a god company they know of or use that provide a service i am after.

thanks
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Dave
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:38pm
 
jasonc310771 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:33pm:
i see all of your points, but as i said i have a landline i pay a rental charge for my own 0208 number and wish to have visitors a number to call that 'does not rip them off' (the point of asking here!) [sorry]

Your 020 number is one such number.

Quote:
i have visitors all over the world and most of course from the UK, i wish to allow visitors a chance to call if they want that is, no obligation, a local rate cheep call as if they were to call a neighbour, at present if my visitors call my 0208 number from lets say scotland! it will cost them far more than if they were to call an 0845 local rate number at 3/4/5 p  or what ever it is, ...

Absolute rubbish!!!

You find me a mainstream telephone package that charges more for long distance geographical calls than it does for local ones and I'll put you in touch with a poor plumber !!!
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:39pm by Dave »  
 
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jasonc310771
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #8 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:01pm
 
any telephone company calling my landline 020 number is classed as a national rate, anyone calling a 0845 local rate number from ANYWHERE in the UK is only charged as though they called next door.

source.  telewest/ntl
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #9 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:04pm
 
Hi Jason,

jasonc310771 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2006 at 4:33pm:
i see all of your points, but as i said i have a landline i pay a rental charge for my own 0208 number and wish to have visitors a number to call that 'does not rip them off' (the point of asking here!) [sorry]
Any geographical number like your current 0208 is the cheapest option (bar freephone) for every one to call regardless of where they may live within the UK or abroad.

Quote:
i have visitors all over the world and most of course from the UK, i wish to allow visitors a chance to call if they want that is, no obligation, a local rate cheep call as if they were to call a neighbour, at present if my visitors call my 0208 number from lets say scotland! it will cost them far more than if they were to call an 0845 local rate number at 3/4/5 p  or what ever it is, i will also have the number listed where it is needed and also have the charges it cost once i have checked it out myself after calling it and also by getting info from the company to post so visitors can see it is cheep and not a rip off.
I think, like many people, you have been fooled into thinking 0845 is cheaper to call than a normal geographical call.

As mentioned earlier and in the links I provided in my previous post from the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) confirm that 0845 is no longer local rate.  In fact local and national rate calls to geographical numbers (those starting 01 or 02) cost less than 0845, etc and are mostly excluded from customers' call plans.

This is why the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) have ruled that advertising 0845 as local rate, etc is misleading.  Please check out the links I've provided.

Also, some international call providers may not allow calls to 0845/0870 because they are more expensive for them to carry than normal geographical calls to 01 or 02 numbers.

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jasonc310771
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #10 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:12pm
 
ok, how much is it likely to cost if you call from the top most part of the UK, say Scotland, to a 020 number in south london?

now, how much does it cost to make that same call but using the 0845 number?

'per minute' that is

?
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bbb_uk
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #11 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:13pm
 
jasonc310771 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:01pm:
any telephone company calling my landline 020 number is classed as a national rate, anyone calling a 0845 local rate number from ANYWHERE in the UK is only charged as though they called next door.

source.  telewest/ntl
If you check out Telewest's page here they announce that Ofcom (the telecom regulator) has declared that 0845 can no longer be described as local rate, etc as well as some other changes.

From this page, I quote the following first two paragraphs:-
Quote:
Making pricing transparent

Over the years the rapid growth and popularity of NTS numbers has resulted in confusion about their pricing structure. There have been complaints from public and consumer lobbies about the lack of price transparency and general dissatisfaction regarding the higher price of non-geographic numbers compared with local alternatives.

Of particular concern is the lack of clarity surrounding 0870 and 0845 which, while advertised as national and local rate respectively, are in essence usually charged at rates exceeding the costs of a typical geographical national or local rate. For example, a caller on a standard package could pay 7.95ppm (pence per minute) for an 0870 call (equivalent to a BT standard national rate) but only pay 3ppm for a geographical national number.


The problem with Telewest is that they've forgotten to update the rest of their webpages so they don't describe 0845 as local rate, etc and therefore follow Ofcom's and the ASA's guidelines but they have obviously forgotten to update their other webpages so are therefore technically doing the opposite of what Ofcom and the ASA have ruled.

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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #12 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:17pm
 
jasonc310771 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:12pm:
ok, how much is it likely to cost if you call from the top most part of the UK, say Scotland, to a 020 number in south london?
The distance no longer applies now because all telephone providers charge the same price but for your comparison it can be as cheap as nothing per minute if you have an inclusive calling plan or if calling from companies like www.call1899.co.uk.

Quote:
how much does it cost to make that same call but using the 0845 number?
This can cost anywhere in excess of 3ppm.  Telewest actually charge nearly 4ppm for this call which is actually more expensive than calling a geographical (01 or 02) call.  TalkTalk actually charge 4.5ppm to call an 0845.
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #13 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:20pm
 
Quote:
please can anyone reading this suggest what you believe is a fair company that does not abuse the 0845 charges by charging more than a local rate, also one that is free to setup free to us in every way!


Jason, you need to understand a couple of very simple issues.

1.  If YOU want a "free" line, then your customers (callers) will pay.....

2.  If you want a "free" or minimal cost service for your callers, then YOU are going to have to pay

These facts are inescapable.

The reason that a telephone company will offer YOU a free setup and 0845 number is that they (the telephone company) will make money on EVERY Call.  As other people have said, your callers will pay - a great deal - and will generally be mega-pi**ed off with YOU!  Meanwhile, the telephone company laughs all the way to the bank. There is NO SUCH THING as a "local rate" and your customers will pay PER MINUTE for the call - wherever they are. Next door. Next town. Scotland ... it doesn't matter.

The alternative as in (2) above, is that you pay the line rental for a normal (geographic 01/02) number. Then YOU pay the cost and the majority of your callers will not pay any incremental costs - i.e. it is a "free" call to them. Of course, now the telephone company is pi**ed off, because they are NOT laughing all the way to the bank! (Why do you think they introduced these rip-off 0870 and 0845 numbers? Of course - to maintain their revenue stream in a world where voice calls are becoming all but generally free!)

So you decide. Who would you rather see pi**ed off? Your customers or the telephone company? To me, it's a no brainer.....  Wink

Of course, the downside is that you pay a line rental for the geographic number - but I think that would be a VERY small price to pay for satisfied customers. Don't you?

Does that make sense? I hope so........

Smiley
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Re: i wish to set up a FAIR 0845 number, suggestio
Reply #14 - Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:37pm
 
mikeinnc wrote on Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:20pm:
Of course, the downside is that you pay a line rental for the geographic number - but I think that would be a VERY small price to pay for satisfied customers. Don't you?
It's not a downside really because you would still have to pay for a normal geographical number (like you already have) for your new 0845 this is because, in simple terms, an 0845 number is actually just diverted to your existing geographical number.

Therefore there is NO downside to just having a geographical number because it would still be needed even if you wanted an 0845 because the 0845 would need to be diverted to an existing geographical number!

Pros and Cons for using just a geographical (01 or 02) number
Pros: Your customers, with the exception of using a freephone number, would be paying the next cheapest option available to them and in a lot of cases the call may be free for them (depending on their tariff).

Cons: None.

Pros and Cons for using 0845 number
Pros: Telewest/NTL will make money on everyone calling the 0845 but that's it!

Cons: Your customers WILL pay more for calling you on your new 0845 and, in some cases, it can cost upto 40ppm to call an 0845 number from mobile networks.

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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2006 at 5:52pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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