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Rip Off NTL/TW increase cost of 0845/0870 calls. (Read 28,160 times)
orsonkart
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Rip Off NTL/TW increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Sep 10th, 2006 at 6:56pm
 
From Oct 2006 NTL are increasing the cost of calls to 0845/0870 numbers


The New rates are:  Daytime Evening Weekend  
                      0845     5p         4p        3p
                      0870     10p       8p         6p

 
Existing  rates: Daytime  Evening Weekend
        0845        4.50        2.25      1.25
        0870        7.99        3.85       2.99
                       
http://www.home.ntl.com/page/phonepricechange

They are also introducing a new flat rate phone charge to UK landlines for calls outside of our “unlimited” tariffs. From then, for such calls you’ll pay 3p per minute no matter what time of day you call – this includes cable-to-cable calls.

Connection charges of 6p a chargeable call remain unchanged.



~Edited by bbb_uk: Amended title to include TW
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2006 at 10:03am by bbb_uk »  
 
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Heinz
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #1 - Sep 10th, 2006 at 7:34pm
 
Why does anyone use cable for their phone calls?  They're such a rip-off.

The new 0845/0870 charges, when compared with BT Together [from 1/10/06] and 18185 [from a BT landline] prove it:

0845

NTL - 6p connection plus:
5p/minute weekdays
4p/minute evenings
3p/minute weekends

BT - 3p 'set-up fee' plus:
3p/minute weekdays
1p/minute evenings
½p/minute weekends

18185 - 4p connection plus:
3p/minute weekdays
½p/minute evenings
½p/minute weekends


0870

NTL - 6p connection plus:
10p/minute weekdays
8p/minute evenings
6p/minute weekends

BT - 3p 'set-up fee' plus:
7.11p/minute weekdays
3.69p/minute evenings
1½p/minute weekends

18185 - 4p connection plus:
5p/minute weekdays
3p/minute evenings
1p/minute weekends

How can they possibly justify charging twice as much as BT and one and a half times as much as 18185 for connection and 6 times more per minute than either of them for a weekend 0845 call?
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« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2006 at 10:39am by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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Tanllan
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #2 - Sep 10th, 2006 at 11:09pm
 
They do not have to justify it. Ofcom's latest advertisement simply tells us that this is all part of their improved world of telecoms where we have the choice.
Why on earth did this country go for duplicated plant? Rather than pressing BT to make better use of fibre. We might then have better broadband.
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kk
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #3 - Sep 10th, 2006 at 11:41pm
 
Hi Heinz, thanks for the helpful post.  

Can you indicate if the charges are per second or rounded up to the next minute.

If you have time, can you also post the previous or existing price structure. 
Can you include 01/02
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« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2006 at 12:07am by kk »  

KK
 
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Dave
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #4 - Sep 11th, 2006 at 8:29am
 
5p/min to phone NTL Customer Services.  Shocked
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orsonkart
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #5 - Sep 11th, 2006 at 8:58am
 
Dave wrote on Sep 11th, 2006 at 8:29am:
5p/min to phone NTL Customer Services.  Shocked


Their is a suggestion in this cable forum thread they are getting rid of 0845 cs number and bringing in free access 150  for cs and 151 for technical enquiries.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=51203

Some people indicate it already works in their areas.
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« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2006 at 9:04am by N/A »  
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #6 - Sep 11th, 2006 at 9:03am
 
Dave wrote on Sep 11th, 2006 at 8:29am:
5p/min to phone NTL Customer Services.  Shocked
10p/min to ring an 0870*.

I wonder if they've increased 0871 but just 'forgotten' to mention it?


* Don't forget the 6p connection fee  Wink
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« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2006 at 9:19am by bbb_uk »  
 
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orsonkart
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #7 - Sep 11th, 2006 at 6:43pm
 
NTL have downgraded the Weekend Packageas well.

The weekend tariff includes National Weekend Calls at moment as well as local
see http://www.home.ntl.com/invt/talkunlimitedlocal

But according to http://www.home.ntl.com/page/phonepricechange

Only Local calls will be free. National weekend calls will be 3p a minute.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:27pm
 
Heinz wrote on Sep 10th, 2006 at 7:34pm:
0845

BT - 3p 'set-up fee' plus:
3p/minute weekdays
1p/minute evenings
½p/minute weekends

0870

BT - 3p 'set-up fee' plus:
7.11p/minute weekdays
3.69p/minute evenings
1½p/minute weekends


My understanding is that BT will not be charging a setup fee or rounding by the minute for 0845 and 0870 calls.  Its only 01 and 02 calls this is happening with?

If the setup fee is also to be applied to 0845 and 0870 calls then someone at Ofcom needs shooting (only methaphorically speaking of course as a figure of speech in case the pedantic Ofcom Communications Director happens to be reading this) very urgently.
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Heinz
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:39pm
 
Quote:
My understanding is that BT will not be charging a setup fee or rounding by the minute for 0845 and 0870 calls.  Its only 01 and 02 calls this is happening with?

If the setup fee is also to be applied to 0845 and 0870 calls then someone at Ofcom needs shooting (only methaphorically speaking of course as a figure of speech in case the pedantic Ofcom Communications Director happens to be reading this) very urgently.

I really would like to think that was the case.

Unfortunately, the leaflet BT delivered with my paper bill recently includes the sections:

Quote:
Call Set-up Fee

From 1st October 2006, the minimum call charge of 5.5p for residential customers will be replaced by a call set-up fee of 3p that will be charged at the start of each phone call.

The call set-up fee will be applied to national and local geographic calls, premium rate calls, NTS calls (e.g. 0845, 0870), international calls and landline-to-mobile calls. However, it will not apply to zero-rated calls included in BT Together Option 2 and 3, BT Together Local Calls Option or Evening and Weekend UK geographical calls of up to an hour for Option 1 customers for which a charge of 5.5p per call will apply.


Quote:
Whole Minute Charging

From 1st October 2006, each call will be rounded up to the next whole minute for national and local geographic calls, international calls, landline-to-mobile calls, premium rate service calls and NTS calls (e.g. 0845, 0870).
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006 at 7:42pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
WWW  
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Dave
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #10 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:49pm
 
Quote:
My understanding is that BT will not be charging a setup fee or rounding by the minute for 0845 and 0870 calls.  Its only 01 and 02 calls this is happening with?

The call setup fee will apply to all calls but whole minute charging will only apply to calls to 01/02 UK landlines, calls to UK mobiles and international calls. The terms and conditions leaflet Heinz refers to says that whole minute charging also applies to premium rate and 0845/0870 NTS calls. This will not be the case, as Ben Verwaayen, BT's chief executive has confirmed.

How can such a mistake happen when these changes are all in the cause of simplifying the pricing? If the people at BT cannot understand what is what with regards billing, then how is Joe Public supposed to be aware?  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:50pm by Dave »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #11 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:50pm
 
I stand corrected.

Ofcom do need shooting for allowing a further uplift in the cost of calls to a class of numbers where normal competitive market forces to drive the cost of calls down are not at work.

But then as Bobby has so recently been making clear to us it is the hijacked by telecoms industry interests Ofcom and their even worse predecessors OFTEL that are the source of the problem rather than merely having made a poor fist of controlling it.

Allowing BT a totally free hand in setting line rental and NGN prices when all it then does is to drive prices upwards is quite simply outrageous.

One would have expected BT's reason for introducing a connection fee instead of a minimum charge was so as to be able to quote a lower pence per minute rate for calls to compare with their competitors but no all they do is simply add the connection charge on top instead! Shocked Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:51pm by N/A »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 6:00pm
 
Dave wrote on Sep 13th, 2006 at 5:49pm:
How can such a mistake happen when these changes are all in the cause of simplifying the pricing? If the people at BT cannot understand what is what with regards billing, then how is Joe Public supposed to be aware?  Roll Eyes


All of Ofcom's so called efforts to introduce greater competition have introduced greater complexity which makes the consumer unable to compare prices.  One could therefore be forgiven with confusing Ofcom with a trade association for whom the main job is making it easier for its members to earn larger profits. Wink Shocked

First it was 118 directory enquiries where customers can be charged for connection and/or per minute and where the dq service is allowed to offer to put you through at exorbitant rates per minute without telling you that this is what is going to happen.

Then it was Line Rental where BT were allowed to make it compulsory for customers who only want to rent the line from it and make all their calls with other phone companies or via Voip to have to pay for a BT call discount scheme called Option 1 they do not use.  This increased the cost of their line rental by 50%.

Now Ofcom allows simple pence per minute pricing billed by the second only introduced by BT a few years back to be replace with old style prices rounded up by the minute and with the further confusion of a connection charge rather than the much easier to understand minimum charge.

When you look at who has been Ofcom's CEO and the quite outrageously anti consumer steps it has taken over the last three years you have to conclude that it is actually Ofcom which is the problem and you have to question exactly why such a commercially minded person  as Stephen Carter was put in charge of it. Wink Angry Angry Angry
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006 at 6:29pm by N/A »  
 
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Dave
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #13 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 6:16pm
 
Quote:
Now Ofcom allows simple pence per minute pricing billed by the second only introduced by BT a few years back to be replace with old style prices rounded up by the minute and with the further confusion of a connection charge rather than the much easier to understand minimum charge.

I think it's a case of companies taking advantage of consumer ignorance of basic mathematics. How do you explain (without doing 'boring' maths) that a 3p/min call on BT or Talk Talk isn't the same as a 3p/min call with a provider that charges by the second?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Rip Off NTL increase cost of 0845/0870 calls.
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 6:39pm
 
Dave wrote on Sep 13th, 2006 at 6:16pm:
I think it's a case of companies taking advantage of consumer ignorance of basic mathematics. How do you explain (without doing 'boring' maths) that a 3p/min call on BT or Talk Talk isn't the same as a 3p/min call with a provider that charges by the second?


I think its more a case of a spineless regulator that is actually complicit in the scams rather than in creating a regulatory environment in which straightforward price competitition will flourish.

It makes you wonder why the petrol industry has never thought of trying to lower headline prices at the pumps by 10p per litre but subject to a basic £5 per tank fill up fee.  Could it be perhaps because the petrol industry is regulated by the zealous OFT and Competition Commission who unlike Ofcom would come down like a ton of bricks upon such behaviour and suggest that such distorted pricing was grossly unfair to the low mileage driver and customers of car hire rental companies only needing to put a few litres back in the tank before they returned the car.

It is an established principle in Economics that the free market only operates properly if there are perfect supplies of information equally available to and readily understood by all consumers.  All these attempts to introduce more complex and impossible to compare pricing into telephone calls are ways to ensure the customer does not undertand pricing properly and so cannot make proper or accurate choices between suppliers.  The fact that the cost of a one minute call to an 0870 number with BT is going up by nearly 50% from 7.51p per minute to 10.51p per minute just leaves speechless with fury and disbelief.

I believe that if the CEO of Ofcom had been someone other than Stephen Carter then it would behaved quite differently as a regulator.  Hopefully his successor may actually have consumer protection at the core of his regulatory agenda.
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