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NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006 (Read 6,088 times)

idb

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NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:50pm

The great and the good gathered at, presumably, the palatial Riverside House, and spewed out their usual garbage:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/notes/nts17aug06

NS Focus Group - 17th August 2006 - 2.00 pm Ofcom

Meeting Notes & Actions
Agenda item (1) - Introductions
Attendance:
Andrew Wileman
Ntl:Telewest (Chair)

Mark Amoss
BT

Rob Day
BT

Justin Hornby
Cable & Wireless

Richard Anderson
Colt

Toby Higho
Easynet

Andy Martin
IV Response

Lesa Green
Kingston Communications

Sandra Reid
Ntl:Telewest

Geoff Brighton
Ofcom

Mike Barford
Tiscali

Paul Brisby
Tower House Consulting (rep. Orange)

Anne McCardle
Verizon Business

Agenda Item (2): Review of minutes of previous meeting
No comments/concerns were raised. It was therefore agreed that the latest form of the minutes could be published on the Ofcom website.

Agenda (3): Update/progress report on the current 'live' NTS related consultations/investigations: (Ofcom/All)
Supplying numbers for 09 premium rate services
Geoff Brighton said that a Statement had been published on 10 th August. This statement made available the 0980 range for adult services following the recent saturation of the legacy adult ranges. Geoff confirmed that the legacy ranges were now closed for new allocation.

Attendees were advised that Ofcom would be consulting on the extension of the Controlled Premium Rate Services definition to adult services operating on 08 ranges in September 2006.

Geoff added that Ofcom would be undertaking a full review of PRS services in the near future.

NTS call termination market review/NCCN 500 investigation
Geoff Brighton said that Ofcom was still in the process of drawing the NCCN 500 investigation to a conclusion. He added that the intention was to publish the preliminary findings in draft form in September 2006, at which point stakeholders would have the opportunity to comment.

The call termination market review remains on hold, pending the outcome of the NCCN 500 investigation.

NTS: A Way Forward – Implementation Update
Geoff Brighton said that the implementation steps were progressing to plan. In particular, Ofcom expected to issue a further consultation on the extension of PRS regulation to adult services currently provided on 08 ranges in September 2006, with a corresponding final statement anticipated before the end of the year. ICSTIS was due to consult on the extension of its remit to cover 0871 services by early 2007 and had recently issued a pre-consultation document aimed at establishing the scope of its consideration.

Geoff advised that there was an inconsistency in dates between the ‘NTS: A Way Forward’ and the ‘ TelephoningNumbering: Safeguarding the Future of Numbers’ statements. The former states that the reforms relating to the 0870 number range will come into effect in January 2008, whereas the latter states February 2008. Geoff confirmed that the official date was 18 months from the date of publication of the statement – this would be 19 th January 2008.

Mark Amoss suggested that the date of effect/implementation should be rounded up to 1 st February 2008 in order to make implementation as straightforward as possible, particularly from a billing perspective. No objections to this proposal were raised.

Agenda (4): Update on BT's proposal for call termination payments under new 0870 arrangements
Mark Amoss provided an update on BT’s current thinking around arrangements for 0870 charging once reclassification had taken effect. Attendees were asked to bear in mind the fact that this thinking did not have BT’s official sign off. Mark suggested that existing BT contractual arrangements should be preserved – and that this perpetuation of the legacy situation should also be applied to technical/routing aspects. Removing the need for contractual changes would simplify the transition and would mean that industry discussions would, in the main part, need only to focus on the termination charges.

Mark added that the issues identified by BT for consideration at the previous meeting were broadly consistent with those that had arisen during the CP conference call, although he expected some TCP/OCP divergence to become evident as discussions progressed. Lesa Green noted that IN dip requirements would also need to be taken into consideration.

Mark said that BT was still in the process of considering a number of factors and agreed to communicate these to the chair for distribution to the focus group once further internal debate had taken place.

New Action Aug06_01: Mark Amoss to communicate the outcome of BT’s additional considerations around the charging arrangements for 0870 post reclassification.

The group discussed how to progress the issue. It was suggested that a dedicated meeting be arranged, involving both BT and other CPs, during which all identified issues and potential approaches could be discussed. Attendees agreed that it would be convenient for the date of such a meeting to coincide with the next NTS focus group.

New Action Aug06_02: Andrew Wileman to arrange an 0870 charging workshop for the morning of 28 th September.

...

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idb

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #1 - Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:51pm

...

Agenda Item (5) – Telephoning Numbering: Safeguarding the Future of Numbers – Overview/Discussion (Ofcom/All)
Attendees were informed that Nic Green had been invited to attend the meeting to provide an overview of the Statement and answer questions. Unfortunately Nic was not able to attend, but would be invited to the next meeting.

New Action Aug06_03: Nic Green to be invited to the next NTSFG meeting

Lesa Green sought clarity around the classification of the proposed new 03 number range. Lesa asked if 03 would mirror the classification of 0870 and said that a number of factors remained unclear: Would 03, for example, be classed as an NTS service with no revenue share and geographic charging? Would 056 LIECS principles apply? Will there be a need for an IN dip? Will there be implications for number portability?

Geoff Brighton agreed to feedback these questions to Ofcom colleagues and provide clarification.

New Action Aug06_04: Geoff Brighton to provide clarification around the classification and governing principles applying to the 03 number range.

Andy Martin Sought clarity around the timescales for the introduction of the 03 range. Geoff Brighton said that pending conclusion of the current statutory consultation, numbers could be available to order from late in October 2006 and could therefore be dialable early in the new year. Geoff agreed to clarify the timescales.

New Action Aug06_05: Geoff Brighton to provide clarification around the timescales for the introduction of the 03 number range.

Agenda Item (6) – Recent BT OCCNs: Introduction of retail call set up fee and changes to discount values
The chair confirmed that the objective of this agenda slot was to provide an opportunity for attendees to seek clarity, ask questions and feed back on the recently issued BT OCCNs. Attendees were reminded that the OCCNs brought into being the effect of the changes to BT’s retail charges, culminating from the relaxation of regulation, as well as amendments to the NTS discount factors. The changes come into effect on 1 st October 2006.

Andrew Wileman asked if the amended BT retail call rounding rules would apply to NTS calls. Mark Amoss said that they would not – existing rounding conventions would continue to apply.

Justin Hornby enquired about the basis of the 3p set up charge. Mark Amoss said that BT retail now had greater pricing freedom and had chosen to alter the structure of its preliminary/event-based charges.

Mike Barford said that there was a general desire among CPs to gain transparency of the data used by BT and to understand how BT had arrived at the new rates. Mark Amoss said that BT had attempted to share as much information with CPs as possible, but was constrained by commercial and regulatory sensitivities. Attendees were reminded that following notification of a previous, similar rate change, two nominees from the NTSFG had been tasked with working through the calculations with BT with the aim of gaining confidence in the data & methodology used. Mike said that the focus of that exercise had been on agreeing methodology, whereas the key concerns with the current rate changes centred around accuracy of data used – the use of such an approach in the current situation was therefore unlikely to yield any further progress.

Discussion turned to specific concerns with the new rates – in particular the level of change to the discount factors. Mike Barford said that issues were unlikely to be resolved outside of a formal dispute. Andrew Wileman suggested that the situation was essentially binary: CPs would either accept or dispute the new charges depending on the impact to their businesses. Mike said that CPs need to be clear about which components they have issues with and, if rejecting the OCCNs, need to be certain about what they will be disputing.

Attendees agreed that it would be sensible to expedite any rejection/dispute referrals. Mark Amoss said that it would be useful to have early confirmation of the components that CPs were uncomfortable with and the reasons for rejection of the OCCNs.

New Action Aug06_06: CPs to feed back reasons for OCCN rejection/dispute to Mark Amoss

...

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idb

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #2 - Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:51pm

...

Discussion turned to the general arrangements for reviewing components within the NTS formula (including AP Jul06_05: Attendees to comment on BT’s intentions in respect of reviewing the components within the NTS formula (to include an expression of preference in respect of BT’s proposals on reviewing the PRS bad debt surcharge).

Attendees were reminded that BT’s stance on reviewing components had been amended since the last NTSFG meeting – details had been distributed to attendees on 16 th August. Mark Amoss explained that this represented BT’s final position and that BT was unable to offer any commitment in respect of guaranteeing stability of rates during the 0870 interim period. Mike Barford referred to the correspondence that had been exchanged between BT and several CPs and said that he had subsequently responded to BT’s latest position. Mike asked why the undertaking to ‘freeze’ rates during the interim period, as proposed by Colin Annette, had been withdrawn. Mark said that the scope of the review and certain external factors had changed – in particular the length of the interim period and the increasing volatility of the retail market. Mark added that BT was in the process of considering the implementation of a policy which would, at a minimum, entail reviewing all components annually in April each year. Mark agreed to confirm the outcome of BT’s thinking at the next NTSFG meeting.

Mike Barford agreed that his response to BT’s amended position could be shared with NTSFG members.

New Action Aug06_07: Mark Amoss to confirm BT’s approach to future reviews of NTS formula components at the next NTSFG.

New Action Aug06_08: Andrew Wileman to forward Mike Barford’s comments on BT’s amended NTS formula review position to NTSFG members.

Andrew Wileman said that he had received several responses to AP Jul06_05, all of which had expressed a preference for the PRS bad debt surcharge to be reviewed annually, concurrent with the NCC basket component review in April each year. Mark said that this would be fed in to BT’s consideration of the arrangements for wider component review.

Agenda item (7) – Review of remaining outstanding actions

Action Jul06_01: Clive Hillier to ensure that responses to the ‘Telephoning Numbering: Safeguarding the Future of Numbers’ consultation are uploaded to the Ofcom website. Discharged – Geoff Brighton confirmed that responses had been uploaded.

Action Jul06_02: BT to respond to CP issues list on 0870 charging and to expand on the BT considerations described at the 6th July meeting before the next focus group. Discharged – See agenda item 4 and new Action Aug06_01.

Action Jul06_03: Andrew Wileman to arrange a (tentative) second conference call to discuss future arrangements for 0870 charging. Discharged – See agenda item 4 and new Action Aug06_02.

Action Jul06_04: Rob Day to forward BT’s position on reviewing the components within the NTS formula. Discharged – Details forwarded to NTSFG members on 16 th August.

Action Jul06_05: Attendees to comment on BT’s intentions in respect of reviewing the components within the NTS formula (to include an expression of preference in respect of BT’s proposals on reviewing the PRS bad debt surcharge). Discharged – See agenda item 6.

Action Jul06_06: BT to consider the issue of notice periods for pricing changes. Discharged – This action stemmed from a question raised by Paul Brisby around lead-times for new rates appearing in the NTS calculator within the BT Carrier Price list. Paul said that he was happy to progress any remaining issue bilaterally with BT.

Action Jul06_07: CPs to consider the effect of the porting differential issue on their businesses and indicate to the chair their desire (or not) to seek a resolution. Discharged – See agenda item 8 and new action Aug06_09.

Action Jul06_08: Ofcom to confirm the date of publication of the final statement on availability of Adult Ranges. Discharged – Statement was published on 10 th August.

...

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idb

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #3 - Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:52pm

...

Agenda item (8) – Any Other Business
Update on porting differential issue
Andrew Wileman said that he had received very little response to AP Jul06_07, but those that had responded had expressed a preference to progress the issue.

Mark Amoss said that if the phenomenon was to be addressed, it should not focus on NGNP in isolation – an equivalent effect exists for other traffic types, so any solution should be generic. Mike Barford said that the problem was most prevalent for NGNP and that the BT billing system was the crux of the issue. Mark added that any such initiative to implement a ‘donor passes on all’ policy between BT and CPs should be extended to inter-CP relationships were BT was not involved in the porting transaction.

Andrew said that a CP’s motivation to address the issue would depend on its particular circumstances (e.g. balance of import/export, type of traffic involved, interconnectivity profile with BT etc.). It was therefore unlikely that an industry consensus would ever be reached – and the current surfeit of NTS activity was probably detracting from CPs’ consideration of the issue.

Paul Brisby added that the forthcoming conclusion of the NCCN500 investigation could have a bearing on CPs’ preferences.

It was agreed that the issue should be put on hold in the short term, pending the culmination of other NTS initiatives (in particular the outcome of the NCCN 500 investigation). The NTSFG would revisit the topic in the new year.

Mike Barford suggested that any CP wishing to progress the issue in the interim would need to raise it as a formal dispute.

New Action Aug06_09: Porting differential issue to be added to the agenda of the first NTSFG meeting of 2007.

Single non-Emergency Number
Andrew Wileman informed attendees that it had been suggested at a recent meeting of the Telecom Advisory Group that the issue of wholesale charging for the 101 service should be referred to the NTSFG. Attendees concurred that 101 was not an NTS service and as such the NTSFG was not an appropriate forum at which to discuss its charging arrangements.

Mark Amoss said that the 101 service did not have SMP obligations attached to it – and as such C&W (as the service host) was free to negotiate charges bilaterally with other CPs. Mark confirmed that BT did provide a 101 transit facility, but this was on standard terms, as per any other BT transit offering to a third party service. A question was raised around the representation of 101 in the BT Carrier Price List. Mark said that 101 should appear as a general transit entry – and therefore should not, for example, appear in the NTS calculator.

It was agreed that the NTSFG would keep a watching brief over developments around 101 charging. Andrew Wileman agreed to confirm the position of the NTSFG to the chair of the Telecom Advisory Group.

New Action Aug06_10: Andrew Wileman to confirm the position of the NTSFG in respect of SNEN discussions to the chair of the Telecom Advisory Group.

Compliance with amended GC14
Andy Martin asked for clarification of the date by which CPs must be compliant with the amended General Condition 14 (relating principally to the transparency of pricing information). Andy asked what would occur if CPs were found to be non-compliant. Geoff Brighton agreed to confirm.

New Action Aug06_11: Geoff Brighton to confirm the date by which CPs must be compliant with the amended General Condition 14, and the potential action to be taken by Ofcom in instances of non-compliance.

Applicability of 0870 reforms to BT Click service
Mark Amoss asked how the forthcoming 0870 reforms would affect the BT Click service. Mark explained that BT Click was a legacy internet access facility, charged at different rates to standard 0870 calls (local rate + 1 pence), that had been implemented prior to the introduction of the 0871 range. Mark said that it was unclear if Ofcom intended the number ranges hosting the BT Click service to be treated as per all other 0870 ranges or if special arrangements would apply. Geoff Brighton agreed to clarify.

Andrew Wileman enquired about the level of usage of the BT Click service. Mark Amoss said that he did not know, but expected it to be low in volume.

New Action Aug06_12: Geoff Brighton to clarify arrangements for the BT Click number ranges once the reforms to the general 0870 range come in to effect.

...

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #4 - Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:53pm

...

International Access to 0844 and 0871 ranges
Lesa Green reminded attendees that international access to 0844 & 0871 number ranges was not currently supported. Lesa asked if there were any plans to provide access to these ranges form overseas. Mark Amoss said that BT had concerns around fraud – and that this issue was particularly pertinent to the ongoing discussions around Annex E of the BT SIA. Mark added that the greatest challenge in achieving international access for these ranges would be getting international operators to open the codes on their networks.

Lesa Green said that the lack of access from overseas could be an issue for SPs planning to migrate from 0870 to 0871. Lesa added that the Access and Interconnection Directive applied across Europe, so this could be used as a means to encourage international operators to open the codes.

Mark suggested that if Kingston Comms had a specific issue, the matter should be addressed bilaterally between Kingston and BT.

Date of Next Meeting:
Thursday 28 th September 2006– 2.30pm, Ofcom – Riverside House, London

Summary of New and Outstanding Actions:

Aug06_01
Mark Amoss to communicate the outcome of BT’s additional considerations around the charging arrangements for 0870 post reclassification

Aug06_02
Andrew Wileman to arrange an 0870 charging workshop for the morning of 28 th September.

Aug06_03
Nic Green to be invited to the next NTSFG meeting

Aug06_04
Geoff Brighton to provide clarification around the classification and governing principles applying to the 03 number range

Aug06_05
Geoff Brighton to provide clarification around the timescales for the introduction of the 03 number range

Aug06_06
CPs to feed back reasons for OCCN rejection/dispute to Mark Amoss

Aug06_07
Mark Amoss to confirm BT’s approach to future reviews of NTS formula components at the next NTSFG

Aug06_08
Andrew Wileman to forward Mike Barford’s comments on BT’s amended NTS formula review position to NTSFG members

Aug06_09
Porting differential issue to be added to the agenda of the first NTSFG meeting of 2007

Aug06_10
Andrew Wileman to confirm the position of the NTSFG in respect of SNEN discussions to the chair of the Telecom Advisory Group

Aug06_11
Geoff Brighton to confirm the date by which CPs must be compliant with the amended General Condition 14, and the potential action to be taken by Ofcom in instances of non-compliance

Aug06_12
Geoff Brighton to clarify arrangements for the BT Click number ranges once the reforms to the general 0870 range come in to effect

[END]

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idb

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #5 - Oct 7^th, 2006 at 12:25am

idb wrote on Oct 6^th, 2006 at 11:53pm:

This part really is quite staggering - how is Ms Green qualified to attend this meeting? She *has* to be aware that there is no guarantee that 0845 and 0870 numbers can be terminated from overseas let alone 0844 and 0871 ranges yet this fact is conveniently overlooked by this bunch of cretins. They seem answerable to no one and instead, carry out their parasitic policies designed to obstruct the capability of citizen-consumers to connect with essential services, both public and private, when traveling overseas. What a shambolic gathering - incompetent and impotent. Ms Green, if you are reading this (unlikely) - just what do you intend to do about terminating internationally-originated calls to NGNs? I'll answer on her behalf - bugger all.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Aug 17, 2006
Reply #6 - Oct 7^th, 2006 at 1:54am

idb wrote on Oct 7^th, 2006 at 12:25am:

And don't forget idb that a large number of NEG client doctors surgeries are now on 0844 numbers and cannot be called from abroad. Shocked

Surely this would be big news in the national newspapers and the likes of BBC Radio 4 Today program?

Interesting how overseas operators are worried that 0844 and 0871 are being used for fraudulent purposed but nobody in the UK NGN industry is. Wink

And as for what it might cost from overseas and especially from a mobile while abroad that doesn't worry these salary, profitability and career self serving scum one little bit. I wonder where the Citizen Consumer was represented at this meeting? Huh

Did the Ofcom Consumer Panel even have a representative there? Undecided

« Last Edit: Oct 7^th, 2006 at 1:58am by N/A »

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